2016 30 kWh Battery data

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A quick note; its finally warming up here! temps into the 80's. Will only be for a few days but we have had temps in upper 70's for several days before that. I have hit 9 TBs a few times but again only on the 2nd QC if and generally only when it was a 50 KW station. Twice I hit EVGO at 40 KW once during the day and both times it only went to 6 TBs which is where it would be half the time during the weather we have been seeing anyway. Good signs.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
A quick note; its finally warming up here! temps into the 80's. Will only be for a few days but we have had temps in upper 70's for several days before that.

You guys up North have no idea what "warm" is: it's been in the 80's here since March! I won't see anything below 6TB again until November. That's why battery degradation isn't such a hot topic (no pun intended) up there.
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
A quick note; its finally warming up here! temps into the 80's. Will only be for a few days but we have had temps in upper 70's for several days before that.

You guys up North have no idea what "warm" is: it's been in the 80's here since March! I won't see anything below 6TB again until November. That's why battery degradation isn't such a hot topic (no pun intended) up there.

Wow, I'm so glad I don't QC! I haven't seen anything above 6TB's despite temps reaching 90. :p
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
A quick note; its finally warming up here! temps into the 80's. Will only be for a few days but we have had temps in upper 70's for several days before that.

You guys up North have no idea what "warm" is: it's been in the 80's here since March! I won't see anything below 6TB again until November. That's why battery degradation isn't such a hot topic (no pun intended) up there.

I've seen Texas heat. I spent a week in June in Plano, TX for some training. The temperatures were above 100F the whole time - even over night. You can keep it! No wonder batteries melt down there without a proper TMS. I would too! (my TMS is more commonly known as A/C - full blast, all the time! Ironically A/C was invented in Syracuse. I think it was done so Mr. Carrier could move away from the snow...)
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
A quick note; its finally warming up here! temps into the 80's. Will only be for a few days but we have had temps in upper 70's for several days before that.

You guys up North have no idea what "warm" is: it's been in the 80's here since March! I won't see anything below 6TB again until November. That's why battery degradation isn't such a hot topic (no pun intended) up there.

Is there a difference between ambient temps in 90's and a car whose pack spends time at 105+º nearly every day?

This is something I hope to answer.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
A quick note; its finally warming up here! temps into the 80's. Will only be for a few days but we have had temps in upper 70's for several days before that.

You guys up North have no idea what "warm" is: it's been in the 80's here since March! I won't see anything below 6TB again until November. That's why battery degradation isn't such a hot topic (no pun intended) up there.

Is there a difference between ambient temps in 90's and a car whose pack spends time at 105+º nearly every day?

This is something I hope to answer.

I'm sure you realize this, but all that really matters is the pack temps.
I can tell you that while we spend several months here with ambient temps in the 90's, I rarely see a pack temp >105 degrees.
However, the fact that my pack is never <90 degrees either is really the problem...and we all know that pack temps around 100 degrees does plenty of damage.
 
And we cannot channel some cabin air to the battery pack. My prius-ii has two vents next to rear seats to the battery (at least owners manual said so.) How come not so for leaf ? any idea?

(I think we cannot feed air thru the maintaince cutoff switch well. Very likely it is sealed around to prevent water invasion to the HV . . . . . Anyone know if that is the case or not?)
 
soldcake said:
And we cannot channel some cabin air to the battery pack. My prius-ii has two vents next to rear seats to the battery (at least owners manual said so.) How come not so for leaf ? any idea?

(I think we cannot feed air thru the maintaince cutoff switch well. Very likely it is sealed around to prevent water invasion to the HV . . . . . Anyone know if that is the case or not?)

Perhaps keeping outside air ingress to a minimum also reduces corrosion. When I was looking at a Tesla powered MB B Class, changing the desiccant packs in the battery pack was a regular service item. Kind of interesting.
 
If you look at the construction of a Tesla battery pack, you will see that the batteries sit on large flat heatpipes. The outside of the heatpipe is what is cooled. The batteries are sealed in. All the airflow is around the outside of the heatpipe which draws the heat from the batteries. It also helps to equalize the heat distribution inside the battery pack.
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Stanton said:
You guys up North have no idea what "warm" is: it's been in the 80's here since March! I won't see anything below 6TB again until November. That's why battery degradation isn't such a hot topic (no pun intended) up there.

Is there a difference between ambient temps in 90's and a car whose pack spends time at 105+º nearly every day?

This is something I hope to answer.

I'm sure you realize this, but all that really matters is the pack temps.
I can tell you that while we spend several months here with ambient temps in the 90's, I rarely see a pack temp >105 degrees.
However, the fact that my pack is never <90 degrees either is really the problem...and we all know that pack temps around 100 degrees does plenty of damage.


Yeah, beginning to look like Nissan made progress but maybe not in every way. My pack definitely cools off faster than my 24 kwh pack did but it heats up MUCH higher as well because it fast charges a lot quicker. Even when setting my cut off point to 40 KW, I am still leaving with 85-88% SOC. This means on my 2nd QC of the day, I am over 110º and lately that has been nearly every day. But I get the chance to cool off.

This early in the year when its warm during the day, it gets pretty cold at night. In the garage, temps are moderated quite a bit but car is still sitting in temps in the mid to low 60's. If I was really concerned, I could park it outside at night where its closer to the mid 40's.

But for you, your pack would take forever to cool off and it simply won't cool down enough. Someone mentioned that the packs have air ventilation coming from the front of the car. Wondering if determining its inlet and putting a fan on it would make a difference?

I have noticed that the 3 temp sensors are pretty spread out than they used to be. Before I had 3 with 2 fairly close to each other with the 3rd being a few degrees cooler. Yesterday, after my 2nd QC, I left LS running to see how fast the pack would cool.

This is where it got strange. In just under 2 hours of near constant driving, I lost two TBs but the top sensor only dropped 3º. BUT the middle sensor (which is normally close to the top sensor) lost 10º and the bottom sensor (which is generally 5-12 º cooler any way) was another 8º below that.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
But for you, your pack would take forever to cool off and it simply won't cool down enough. Someone mentioned that the packs have air ventilation coming from the front of the car. Wondering if determining its inlet and putting a fan on it would make a difference?

Been there, done that...and it didn't make a bit of difference.
Based on early forum discussions, I put a big fan at the front of my Leaf (before I ever lost my first bar) and ran it any night I saw 7TB when I got home from work (which was about 2-3 months out of the year). Result: I qualified for my (free) battery pack well before my capacity warranty had expired.
We can speculate about where/when I chose to run the fan, but I think the simple answer was: the garage is just too hot in the TX summer to allow the pack to ever really cool...and I'm not going to put A/C in my garage (and I'm not going to park my Leaf outside overnight--not that it would have made a difference).
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
But for you, your pack would take forever to cool off and it simply won't cool down enough. Someone mentioned that the packs have air ventilation coming from the front of the car. Wondering if determining its inlet and putting a fan on it would make a difference?

Been there, done that...and it didn't make a bit of difference.
Based on early forum discussions, I put a big fan at the front of my Leaf (before I ever lost my first bar) and ran it any night I saw 7TB when I got home from work (which was about 2-3 months out of the year). Result: I qualified for my (free) battery pack well before my capacity warranty had expired.
We can speculate about where/when I chose to run the fan, but I think the simple answer was: the garage is just too hot in the TX summer to allow the pack to ever really cool...and I'm not going to put A/C in my garage (and I'm not going to park my Leaf outside overnight--not that it would have made a difference).

First off are we talking about 30 kwh packs?

Actually it likely wouldnt. Guessing the air flow is highly restricted so a fan blowing into the front would be limited. I think the best bet is determining where the air flow outlet is and putting a fan there to create negative pressure. I am collecting data that implies that the front sensor is getting a lot more air flow cooling than the rear sensor which means air flow is not sufficient despite running at highway speeds in cool weather so during warm weather, there is no chance.
 
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
But for you, your pack would take forever to cool off and it simply won't cool down enough. Someone mentioned that the packs have air ventilation coming from the front of the car. Wondering if determining its inlet and putting a fan on it would make a difference?

Been there, done that...and it didn't make a bit of difference.
Based on early forum discussions, I put a big fan at the front of my Leaf (before I ever lost my first bar) and ran it any night I saw 7TB when I got home from work (which was about 2-3 months out of the year). Result: I qualified for my (free) battery pack well before my capacity warranty had expired.
We can speculate about where/when I chose to run the fan, but I think the simple answer was: the garage is just too hot in the TX summer to allow the pack to ever really cool...and I'm not going to put A/C in my garage (and I'm not going to park my Leaf outside overnight--not that it would have made a difference).
I'm not surprised to hear that a fan in a garage was ineffective. Was the garage door closed ?
 
SageBrush said:
Stanton said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
But for you, your pack would take forever to cool off and it simply won't cool down enough. Someone mentioned that the packs have air ventilation coming from the front of the car. Wondering if determining its inlet and putting a fan on it would make a difference?

Been there, done that...and it didn't make a bit of difference.
Based on early forum discussions, I put a big fan at the front of my Leaf (before I ever lost my first bar) and ran it any night I saw 7TB when I got home from work (which was about 2-3 months out of the year). Result: I qualified for my (free) battery pack well before my capacity warranty had expired.
We can speculate about where/when I chose to run the fan, but I think the simple answer was: the garage is just too hot in the TX summer to allow the pack to ever really cool...and I'm not going to put A/C in my garage (and I'm not going to park my Leaf outside overnight--not that it would have made a difference).
I'm not surprised to hear that a fan in a garage was ineffective. Was the garage door closed ?

agreed. Didn't someone rig up AC in their garage in Phoenix to cool the garage to like 90 (I guess "some" people would call that cool... :shock: ) and it didn't help either?

I think any cooling has to be directly connected to the battery pack itself.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I think any cooling has to be directly connected to the battery pack itself.
It surely does not help to move hot air around.

Since driving does keep the battery temps down, ventilation must play a part in battery cooling but the battery will never cool down lower than ambient, thus the need to put the car outside, not on toasty asphalt, and not in the sun. I would not be surprised at all to find that the owners with the most severe battery degradation stories are in hot climates with garaged cars.
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
I think any cooling has to be directly connected to the battery pack itself.
It surely does not help to move hot air around.

Since driving does keep the battery temps down, ventilation must play a part in battery cooling but the battery will never cool down lower than ambient, thus the need to put the car outside, not on toasty asphalt, and not in the sun. I would not be surprised at all to find that the owners with the most severe battery degradation stories are in hot climates with garaged cars.

It doesn't if the air is as hot or hotter. In my case, the weather is warm, radiant heat adds another 10+º, but all of that does not add up to the fact my pack has hit 125+ 3 days in a row...
 
The battery temp in our car hit 6 bars this week -- first time I have seen it that high since we bought the car in January but it was back to 5 bars by morning.

I figure I will see 8 bars by the time summer is over. That sounds high to me ... until I think of the cars that live in hell .... err, I mean Phoenix and environs.
 
SageBrush said:
The battery temp in our car hit 6 bars this week -- first time I have seen it that high since we bought the car in January but it was back to 5 bars by morning.

I figure I will see 8 bars by the time summer is over. That sounds high to me ... until I think of the cars that live in hell .... err, I mean Phoenix and environs.

I think you will be fine. I know a few Phoenicians who basically start out with 9 or 10 TBs in the morning and it that is how it is for 7 months a year. 8 is a cakewalk
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I think you will be fine. I know a few Phoenicians who basically start out with 9 or 10 TBs in the morning and it that is how it is for 7 months a year. 8 is a cakewalk
That is what I keep telling our car.
 
It's the end of May and I'm down to 300 GID's. Stats are AHr=65.70 SOH=82% Hx=75.84% 28051 mi 44 QCs and 521 L2. The first bar continues to come and go. 11 bars after a full charge but after driving 30 minutes it shows 12 bars again and stays that way until I charge it again.
 
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