GregH
Well-known member
I don't think it would be that hard.. Email me offline at dashdisplay@gmaillion said:
LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf
- Thread starter GregH
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
In using the LeafDD, excellent diagnostic tool, for over six months now, I've noticed that the second screen
will occasionally display the battery impedance. I've only seen it twice and have not been able to determine
what conditions, e.g. shortly after charging, will result in the impedance being displayed. Is there a mode
of operation that generates that calculation or certain operations/battery conditions that 'trigger' the
calculation?
will occasionally display the battery impedance. I've only seen it twice and have not been able to determine
what conditions, e.g. shortly after charging, will result in the impedance being displayed. Is there a mode
of operation that generates that calculation or certain operations/battery conditions that 'trigger' the
calculation?
GregH
Well-known member
On some of the later software versions there was a feature to measure impedance by comparing pack voltage at rest vs. under high load. When the conditions are right to take a ~0 current reading a single dot will show up just to the left of the max temperature on page 1. If it detects a high current not long after no longer being 0 then it will take a reading and put a 2nd dot on the front page. Next time you go to page 2 it will display the pack impedance along with the SOC and pack temp at the time of the test (in case you notice the two dots much later after the fact).
The most likely scenario for the test to happen is after you do a full throttle acceleration say from 0 to 30+ mph without the AC/heater on... But PLEASE if you're playing with this, BE SAFE and don't try to change pages while driving.. The data will stay in the unit until the next time you look at page 2 be it at the next stop light or 3 days later.
There might be a mention of this on the OP which I've edited a zillion times but haven't looked at in ages.
The most likely scenario for the test to happen is after you do a full throttle acceleration say from 0 to 30+ mph without the AC/heater on... But PLEASE if you're playing with this, BE SAFE and don't try to change pages while driving.. The data will stay in the unit until the next time you look at page 2 be it at the next stop light or 3 days later.
There might be a mention of this on the OP which I've edited a zillion times but haven't looked at in ages.
jlsoaz
Well-known member
fwiw:
Just noting:
I've used the LeafDD for a few quarters now and it has helped me to fill out the PluginAmerica Leaf Battery survey, and to have some improved sense of battery status. It works fine. Have wrapped the cord around the steering wheel and taped it to the dash, and it just stays there.
Josh
Just noting:
I've used the LeafDD for a few quarters now and it has helped me to fill out the PluginAmerica Leaf Battery survey, and to have some improved sense of battery status. It works fine. Have wrapped the cord around the steering wheel and taped it to the dash, and it just stays there.
Josh
Following the basic procedure outlined by GregH, I was able produce an impedance reading.
In first attempt I only fully accelerated to a little over 30 MPH. That didn't produce the value.
The next full acceleration to 45 was the key. The 2nd screen indicated a value of 76 mohm
at 73% with the temp at 20 deg C. This is at about 13.7K miles. I assume the 73% relates
to the percent of max battery output current during the test, right?
Previous LeafDD impedance values at 12K & 12.3K yielded 56 & 64 mohms respectfully.
Obviously those values are meaningless without corresponding temp values.
A thanks to GregH for having the insight to include that function, as the analytics over time
will provide useful battery characteristics.
In first attempt I only fully accelerated to a little over 30 MPH. That didn't produce the value.
The next full acceleration to 45 was the key. The 2nd screen indicated a value of 76 mohm
at 73% with the temp at 20 deg C. This is at about 13.7K miles. I assume the 73% relates
to the percent of max battery output current during the test, right?
Previous LeafDD impedance values at 12K & 12.3K yielded 56 & 64 mohms respectfully.
Obviously those values are meaningless without corresponding temp values.
A thanks to GregH for having the insight to include that function, as the analytics over time
will provide useful battery characteristics.
jlsoaz
Well-known member
Hi - a fellow driver and I are using my Leaf DD to take measurements so he can put his data into the PIA Survey. A question or two:
- for aH measurement, do you recommend use the "C" number ("true" aH) or use the other aH number. I think I have been using the C number.
- I never really have bothered with the SOC % reading (have just left it toggled to the GID read-out and then forgotten about other options. If the car is fully charged should the SOC % read out as 100% or near 100%? I think on the car we are reading, it is around 93 or 94% fully charged (192 or 193 GIDs.
- for aH measurement, do you recommend use the "C" number ("true" aH) or use the other aH number. I think I have been using the C number.
- I never really have bothered with the SOC % reading (have just left it toggled to the GID read-out and then forgotten about other options. If the car is fully charged should the SOC % read out as 100% or near 100%? I think on the car we are reading, it is around 93 or 94% fully charged (192 or 193 GIDs.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
A description of what the various readings mean is in the first post of the thread.jlsoaz said:
For battery capacity, the number you want is indeed "C" on second page of the display. It is the total capacity of the battery in Amp•hours. The Ah reading on the first page is how much of that capacity is currently filled.
The reason the car doesn't show "100%" when fully charged is because Leaf DD shows real %SOC and the LEAF doesn't allow charge higher than about 94-95% to protect the battery from overcharging; I believe that turtle is somewhere in the 1-2% range to prevent undercharging.
The %SOC display on 2013 and newer LEAFs is normalized so that full = "100%", regardless of how much charge the battery actually holds. There is some evidence that real SOC might vary with battery balancing, temperature and, perhaps, battery resistance but I don't know if that has really been pinned down yet.
Regardless, using an actual energy unit, such as Gids as you have been doing, is more useful than %SOC. I also use Gids as my fuel gauge. Knowing that LBW is at 49 Gids and VLBW is at 24 Gids is very helpful. %SOC isn't as useful because the energy content of each percent declines as the battery ages.
jlsoaz
Well-known member
dgpcolorado said:
Ok, thanks for the answers. We did manage to get the info into the PIA survey, and I lent the driver my LeafDD.
Now that I have my (2011) Leaf, and I'm newly interested in this whole process - are there any brilliant new ideas for mounting the DD (great name for it, btw)? Happily, my car came with the device, and I'm ready to mount it for real. More and more I'm thinking about just sticking it over the pass-side bag indicator low on the console. I'd sure like it a bit higher though. Putting it IN that hole is compelling. The pictures of that install are long-gone, though it seems. Are there any other threads on the device that I'm missing.
Also it seems that I STILL have some values on mine that are not described in the opening posts. Still trying to figure it all out. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out "gids" that I've been hearing about for years, but not really paying attention to!
Also it seems that I STILL have some values on mine that are not described in the opening posts. Still trying to figure it all out. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out "gids" that I've been hearing about for years, but not really paying attention to!
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
Darell, Several of us have put ours on the dash above the console:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561&start=103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The cable wraps around the steering column to keep it snug and out of the way (works well). My sunshade/backing is attached to the dash by a strip of Velcro, so it is easily removable. If I want to hide the Leaf DD, which is rare, I just put it in the cup holder and put a towel over it. Otherwise it just lives on the dash.
So far as "Gids" are concerned, each is nominally 80 watt•hours. A new 2011 would have had about 281 Gids on a "100%" charge. Low Battery Warning (LBW) happens at 49 Gids and Very Low Battery Warning (VLBW) happens at 24 Gids. I think turtle is somewhere around 7 Gids, but I've never gotten that low. And, I think shutdown happens when a cell-pair gets to 3.0 V, so the voltage numbers on page 3 can be useful to watch at very low SOC levels. I typically see 3.6 Volts even at VLBW but the cell-pair voltages start to diverge a lot below that.
A new LEAF battery is thought to have had about 66.25 Amp•hours of capacity, so you can get an idea of how your 2011 is doing by looking at the "C" number on page 2.
Have fun with your LEAF!
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561&start=103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The cable wraps around the steering column to keep it snug and out of the way (works well). My sunshade/backing is attached to the dash by a strip of Velcro, so it is easily removable. If I want to hide the Leaf DD, which is rare, I just put it in the cup holder and put a towel over it. Otherwise it just lives on the dash.
So far as "Gids" are concerned, each is nominally 80 watt•hours. A new 2011 would have had about 281 Gids on a "100%" charge. Low Battery Warning (LBW) happens at 49 Gids and Very Low Battery Warning (VLBW) happens at 24 Gids. I think turtle is somewhere around 7 Gids, but I've never gotten that low. And, I think shutdown happens when a cell-pair gets to 3.0 V, so the voltage numbers on page 3 can be useful to watch at very low SOC levels. I typically see 3.6 Volts even at VLBW but the cell-pair voltages start to diverge a lot below that.
A new LEAF battery is thought to have had about 66.25 Amp•hours of capacity, so you can get an idea of how your 2011 is doing by looking at the "C" number on page 2.
Have fun with your LEAF!
New user of LeafDD here. I just purchased a 2011 that came with it. I have the owner manual (posted at the intro to this thread as well) and I still have questions.
In this image:
What do all the numbers in the right column represent? They are shown in the manual (this image is from the manual), but I can't find anywhere that describes them. When the details are written in the manual, the right-most column is chopped off in the image used.
Here are my guesses top to bottom:
The dots at the top... version number. But what does this represent? Mine has the same three dots, with two under it. V3.2?
134 = Gids
377.5 = pack voltage
9.0 = maybe Amps in and out of the pack??
46 40 - Greg fooling around with raw data that doesn't mean anything to me
How'd I do?
In this image:
What do all the numbers in the right column represent? They are shown in the manual (this image is from the manual), but I can't find anywhere that describes them. When the details are written in the manual, the right-most column is chopped off in the image used.
Here are my guesses top to bottom:
The dots at the top... version number. But what does this represent? Mine has the same three dots, with two under it. V3.2?
134 = Gids
377.5 = pack voltage
9.0 = maybe Amps in and out of the pack??
46 40 - Greg fooling around with raw data that doesn't mean anything to me
How'd I do?
gbarry42
Well-known member
Hi, Darrell -- I've been looking at your site since before there were LEAFs. I'd find it when I go looking for EV-1 info, and also the "Who's who in RAV4s" page. Eventually I realized that whenever I went looking for EV info, I'd end up on the same site.
For the record, (now that you've installed your display), I found pictures of the airbag-warning-opening mount in this post: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561&start=300#p369642" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Three messages later, he has posted pictures of how it's mounted from the inside.
For the record, (now that you've installed your display), I found pictures of the airbag-warning-opening mount in this post: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561&start=300#p369642" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Three messages later, he has posted pictures of how it's mounted from the inside.
Hi gbarry -
Thanks for the nice words on my site. Yes, it has been up LOOOONG before the Leaf was even a glimmer in Nissan's eye. I'm not sure if I will continue it with the "modern wave" of EVs. I can't even count the hours that I have invested in it to this point! Lots of great history there that I'm glad is now in the archives forever.
Back to LeafDD - Yes, I found that mounting option before I decided on mine. In fact I took a VERY close look at it while I had the cover off my center stack. But in the end, I decided that I could not read it well enough from outside the car - something I do regularly to check on the SOC, etc. Super slick idea though. I love that type of thinking!
So... any help on what my display is telling me??
Thanks for the nice words on my site. Yes, it has been up LOOOONG before the Leaf was even a glimmer in Nissan's eye. I'm not sure if I will continue it with the "modern wave" of EVs. I can't even count the hours that I have invested in it to this point! Lots of great history there that I'm glad is now in the archives forever.
Back to LeafDD - Yes, I found that mounting option before I decided on mine. In fact I took a VERY close look at it while I had the cover off my center stack. But in the end, I decided that I could not read it well enough from outside the car - something I do regularly to check on the SOC, etc. Super slick idea though. I love that type of thinking!
So... any help on what my display is telling me??
I need to take some better pictures in better light, but this gives an idea. It is right where I want it, and it is permanent but flexible (can't break it off while cleaning the dash or glass - it is held from the bottom of the case with magnets. A short video is in order...
The cable turns down immediately and disappears behind the center stack, never to be seen again until it peeks out to plug into the OBD port. I REALLY don't like exposed cable.
The cable turns down immediately and disappears behind the center stack, never to be seen again until it peeks out to plug into the OBD port. I REALLY don't like exposed cable.
