opencar
Well-known member
TickTock said:
i don't think mwalsh had the P3227 update so maybe that's the reason for the discrepancy?
Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons
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i don't think mwalsh had the P3227 update so maybe that's the reason for the discrepancy?
TickTock
Well-known member
opencar said:
GregH and ttweed has data (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12789&hilit=Hx+ahr&start=431) indicating, indeed, the P93327 did impact the Hx significantly (Ah:60.8, Hx:91.0% pre and Ah:59.0. Hx:78.8% post). However, my formula didn't fit either.
I guess I got so amazed with the fit I thought we were done.JeremyW, can you provide a few datapoints with ESR, Pack Temp, Ah, & SOC? You should have all these in your triplog.txt file on your thumbdrive (assuming you've been logging).
mwalsh said:
7/21: AHr=47.68 CAP=72.69% Hlth=66.19%. Mileage: 44,316
The cap number shows that you are down almost 28% at this time.mwalsh said:
How does that compare to actual range loss ? (same, more or less).
The reason that I am asking is that my car shows down 15% by the AHr numbers, but actual range loss is only about half that much.
KJD said:
Range is now 55-60 miles, compared to 80-85 miles when new. So range is off by ~30%.
drees said:
More likely to be VLBW than Turtle, but I never run it down that far, so hard to know. Instead, I now L1 charge at work for a couple of hours to give me a cushion.
Averaging 4.2 miles/kWh, with 15.6kWh available at full charge according to LEAF Spy.
- mwalsh -
"6/22: AHr=54.07 CAP=81.61%. Mileage: 30,455 miles. Lost bar 12."
At 9K miles and AHr=59, my bar 12 drops at the same point as mwalsh's 12 loss,
and subsequently every decrease of 5 AHr results in another bar dropping.
So with less than a 10% loss from the present capacity in the future, my Leaf will
lose its first bar. It's hard to believe I'll make 30K miles like mwalsh.
"6/22: AHr=54.07 CAP=81.61%. Mileage: 30,455 miles. Lost bar 12."
At 9K miles and AHr=59, my bar 12 drops at the same point as mwalsh's 12 loss,
and subsequently every decrease of 5 AHr results in another bar dropping.
So with less than a 10% loss from the present capacity in the future, my Leaf will
lose its first bar. It's hard to believe I'll make 30K miles like mwalsh.
mwalsh said:
7/25: AHr=47.17 CAP=71.9% Hlth=65.24%. Mileage: 44,564. Lost bar 10.
ttweed
Well-known member
I'm still baffled by the comparison of Hx reading on my car and mwalsh's. Is it just the update changing how the Hx value is reported? Has everyone with the update experienced such low "Health reports?mwalsh said:
As of today, 7/26:
AHr=49.36 CAP=74.51% Hx=55.21. Mileage: 45,807
Still 10% lower on the Hx (Hlth?) reading while Ahr (CAP) is 3% higher???
Haven't lost the 10th bar yet--looks like I have about 2 AHr to go. It's taken since Mar. 3 to lose the last two AHr.
TT
TickTock
Well-known member
OK. Jeremy shared his CANary logs so I was able to add data from a car with significantly different ESR (he's around 90mO and I'm around 120mO). Was able to fit something fairly close if I included ESC (=1/ESR), AHr, and Temperature.
If I only use ESC, below is the closest fit I could reach:
(the step function at the end of the graph is where my car's data ends and Jeremy's begins)
Adding Pack temperature to the formula it gets better:
And finally adding Ah I get the best fit (I should clarify. This is the Ah capacity (proportional to SOH) - NOT the charge state) :
Adding SOC had very little impact to the fit.
So the Fn I have now is:
Fn = 0.00616*(ESC+84.5) * [1-0.0011*(PackT-1.536)] * [1+0.0322*(Ah-49.4)]
Plugging in ttweed's data, assuming a pack temperature of 29C, and solving for ESC, it appears he has ~120mO ESR (TT, do you know your pack temp?). mwalsh's numbers don't compute because we know the Hx algorithm changed significantly with the P3227 update which he has avoided.
Any other CANary owners (or LEAFers with other means to measure ESR) willing to share their triplogs so we can see if this formula holds up under further scrutiny?
If I only use ESC, below is the closest fit I could reach:
(the step function at the end of the graph is where my car's data ends and Jeremy's begins)
Adding Pack temperature to the formula it gets better:
And finally adding Ah I get the best fit (I should clarify. This is the Ah capacity (proportional to SOH) - NOT the charge state) :
Adding SOC had very little impact to the fit.
So the Fn I have now is:
Fn = 0.00616*(ESC+84.5) * [1-0.0011*(PackT-1.536)] * [1+0.0322*(Ah-49.4)]
Plugging in ttweed's data, assuming a pack temperature of 29C, and solving for ESC, it appears he has ~120mO ESR (TT, do you know your pack temp?). mwalsh's numbers don't compute because we know the Hx algorithm changed significantly with the P3227 update which he has avoided.
Any other CANary owners (or LEAFers with other means to measure ESR) willing to share their triplogs so we can see if this formula holds up under further scrutiny?
ttweed
Well-known member
All I have recorded is the range of temps reported by the Leaf Spy app in F when I take the reading (usually in the morning after charging has stopped, either at 80% or 100% SOC, although I have measured a few times at VLBC, which is when it is usually hottest). On the last set of numbers I posted above from 7/26, the range of temps reported was 78-83F.TickTock said:
TT
Forgive me if this has been covered, but I had a couple of surprises with my 2015 and the SOC. I had not been tracking the similarity of the dash SOC with the value from the app, but I was surprised at the discrepancy I saw yesterday when the SOC was getting low. The dash says 12% but the app says 19.8%. The GID% is actually closer to the dash. After recharging partially, the values were closer, but still differed in the same order, with about 5% between the two SOC values.
Is this something different about 2015s? The other odd thing is that I hit LBW about the time I dropped to two bars. I drove about 4 miles before I took the picture. I think there were 47 or 49 GIDs when that happened. In my 2011 with all the updates, I usually hit LBW when I dropped to one bar.
Is this something different about 2015s? The other odd thing is that I hit LBW about the time I dropped to two bars. I drove about 4 miles before I took the picture. I think there were 47 or 49 GIDs when that happened. In my 2011 with all the updates, I usually hit LBW when I dropped to one bar.
Attachments
I would not be too surprised by this. The bars on the guess o meter seem to vary when compared to GIDs. People have also written about not all GIDs are created equal. I think there have been small changes year to year in the software( my guess only ). The battery is also slightly different on the 2015 vs the 2011. It could be it reacts differently at low SOC.nogajim said:
It does seem like low battery warning is consistent at 49 GIDs and very low battery warning at 25 GIDs.
Some where I read that the difference in SOC numbers had to do with using 281 GIDs as the number for 100% SOC. The dash might use the number of GIDS ( or some other calculated value ) as of the last full charge.
You might also read this thread about 2014 Leaf Battery monthly capacity values.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=15837" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
mxp
Well-known member
2011 Silver Leaf (all vehicle sw updates applied, QC=13, L1/L2=990)
06/28/13: AHr=58.84 CAP=88.81%. Hlth= n/a
10/25/13: AHr=57.87 CAP=87.87%. Hlth=85.33%
03/10/14: AHr=56.05 CAP=81.61%. Hlth=81.75% (lost 12th bar somewhere in Mar, 2014)
05/18/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=83.16%. Hlth=79.88%
08/19/14: AHr=52.95 CAP=79.91%. Hlth=63.69% (SOC is 90.1%, 214 GIDs 76.2%)
I have been charging @ 100% ever since I have lost my 1st bar.
Based on everyone's data, at what AHr will I lose my 2nd bar?
Thanks.
06/28/13: AHr=58.84 CAP=88.81%. Hlth= n/a
10/25/13: AHr=57.87 CAP=87.87%. Hlth=85.33%
03/10/14: AHr=56.05 CAP=81.61%. Hlth=81.75% (lost 12th bar somewhere in Mar, 2014)
05/18/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=83.16%. Hlth=79.88%
08/19/14: AHr=52.95 CAP=79.91%. Hlth=63.69% (SOC is 90.1%, 214 GIDs 76.2%)
I have been charging @ 100% ever since I have lost my 1st bar.
Based on everyone's data, at what AHr will I lose my 2nd bar?
Thanks.
Weatherman
Well-known member
mxp said:
I'm down to 51.0 AHr and the 2nd bar is still hanging on. I was expecting it to drop quite a while ago.
It's a good thing I have another way to measure capacity. I'd be really confused over my very short range with 11 bars still showing if I didn't know what was really going on.
Berlino
Well-known member
nogajim said:
I think this is common from MY13 on.
When you drop to 8-9 GIDs, SOC% and GID% might start getting closer because from 8 to 5 GIDs drop VERY slowly, allowing SOC% to eventually come close to catching up. By this point the dash will be showing on "---%".
mxp
Well-known member
Weatherman said:
Thanks. So it seems the 2nd bar loss might occur around the ~50AHr mark then.
I'll brace myself for it coming this fall.... :-(
mxp said:
My present capacity is at 58.5 Ahrs after 100% charge at about 10.5K miles.. The 1st bar 'drops' at
about 54 Ahrs and each successive bar drops at a 4 Ahr rate per bar, i.e. the third bar 'drops' at about
45-46 Ahrs capacity. This most likely will correlative with the actual bar loss rate over time. Obviously,
the effect of temperature, battery cycling, and aging will affect this to some extent.
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