oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:42 am

GaslessInSeattle wrote:It sounds like it's not so random. our refund status on the IRS web site has been "Your tax return has been received and is being processed" for many months. We filed in early February and it's getting kind of nerve wracking. It appears that a few things could be adding to the delay. Our tax person has called and found that they are "investigating" the claim and that the main red flag is the EV credit. Our accountant told us we are in IRS limbo land, where it takes many weeks, sometimes months to get shuffled around. From the talk she had with an IRS rep last week, we will likely have to come up with the invoice and prove we actually bought the car but won't even be given the chance till 30 days passes from the time the investigation started or something like that. I have never had such a large return as we have better planned withholdings in the past. In hind sight, our accountant suggests trying to avoid ever having a refund over $10,000, as it automatically flags your account.

for folks buying this year, I would consider claiming more exemptions as you go if you can to keep the actual refund from being large... at the very least, you won't be wringing your hands for months waiting for a big refund check.



oakwcj wrote:
mwalsh wrote:I don't know about that, but I do know that the IRS is sitting on my tax return for this year. I've had private discussion with someone else in the same situation and who has contacted them - he's waiting on "an investigator" being assigned to his "case"! :shock:


I don't think it's quite that ominous. The IRS randomly selects some returns claiming certain large tax credits. They go to the "examination" -- not the "investigation" -- department to be looked at by an "examiner." The only problem I have with the process is that it is taking way too much time.


The "flag" is the EV credit. The selection process appears to be random. My refund is under $10k, so there goes that theory. Just because there are three people on this forum whose returns are being "investigated" doesn't mean that the process isn't random. My return is very simple: standard deduction, no Schedule C, etc. My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:57 am

oakwcj wrote: My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.


Speaking of which... Here's the report from the Treasury Department about the abuses. It's an interesting read:

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditrepo ... 1011fr.pdf


There is a section in there on individuals claiming "excessive numbers of vehicles on the Form 8936", and stating they are for "personal use". If the car is for personal use, you can use the tax credit to reduce AMT. However, if the credits are for business use, the business portion of the credit cannot be used to reduce AMT.
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:13 am

Weatherman wrote:
Speaking of which... Here's the report from the Treasury Department about the abuses. It's an interesting read:

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditrepo ... 1011fr.pdf


There is a section in there on individuals claiming "excessive numbers of vehicles on the Form 8936", and stating they are for "personal use". If the car is for personal use, you can use the tax credit to reduce AMT. However, if the credits are for business use, the business portion of the credit cannot be used to reduce AMT.


brilliant find.
how did you do it?
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:17 am

thankyouOB wrote:brilliant find.
how did you do it?


Google is my friend. ;)
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

EdmondLeaf
Posts: 1500
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Edmond, OK

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:20 am

Very interesting report, and assure that EV credit, if EV is for personal use, can't be reduced by TMT or AMT. Not sure why IRS reduced EV credit for OP

A vehicle claimed for personal credit has a tax advantage because the amount can be used to reduce the AMT.

TLeaf
Forum Supporter
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:08 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000225
Location: Renton, WA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:34 am

I wonder how many of these people intentionally falsified their returns and how many people simply didn't take the time to understand the nature of the credit but proceeded with it anyways based on "common wisdom" (e.g.- "I was told that my 2007 Zap Zebra would qualify for the full $7,500"). It seems that a majority of people don't delve into the tax code very deeply (same "what, me worry?" mentality as can be found with elections, global warming, programming VCRs and other complex issues), so I wouldn't doubt that there's a fair share of the latter..

FWIW- My paper-filed tax return took roughly 8 weeks to get processed and paid..

Bassman
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:30 am
Location: Angels Camp, CA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:11 am

Filed TurboTax electronically with the EV Credit Form 8936 and a Schedule C (wife has a flower shop). My LEAF is for personal use only. Got the refund within three weeks, but due to lower tax liability, only got about $5600 instead of $7500.
Glenn
Ocean Blue SL w/QC,
Delivered 4/29/2011- VIN# 756
34,800 miles so far (2/20/2013) Still 12 bars @ 100% charge, but range has reduced by about 10 to 12 %
2012 Pearl White (Blizzard) Rav4 EV

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9633
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:20 pm

oakwcj wrote:The "flag" is the EV credit. The selection process appears to be random. My refund is under $10k, so there goes that theory. Just because there are three people on this forum whose returns are being "investigated" doesn't mean that the process isn't random. My return is very simple: standard deduction, no Schedule C, etc. My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.


In my opinion their time would be better spent finding and eliminating the completely fake tax returns filed in order to get refunds! :x
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 81,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:07 pm

mwalsh wrote:
oakwcj wrote:The "flag" is the EV credit. The selection process appears to be random. My refund is under $10k, so there goes that theory. Just because there are three people on this forum whose returns are being "investigated" doesn't mean that the process isn't random. My return is very simple: standard deduction, no Schedule C, etc. My tax lawyer friend told me that there have been cases of fraudulent claims for the EV credit in the past few years and that the IRS apparently decided to take a closer look at a sample. While it's infuriating to endure the long delay, we can probably blame the House Republicans for cutting the IRS budget for that.


In my opinion their time would be better spent finding and eliminating the completely fake tax returns filed in order to get refunds! :x


Of course. But they hardly have to spend any time on the EVSE credit. The VIN is on the form. All they have to do is cross-check with the DMV database. It's ridiculous to have a humanoid "investigator" look at these things if the cross-check confirms that you've registered an EV.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

smkettner
Posts: 7355
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:12 pm

Weatherman wrote:Here's the report from the Treasury Department about the abuses. It's an interesting read:
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditrepo ... 1011fr.pdf

There is a section in there on individuals claiming "excessive numbers of vehicles on the Form 8936", and stating they are for "personal use". If the car is for personal use, you can use the tax credit to reduce AMT. However, if the credits are for business use, the business portion of the credit cannot be used to reduce AMT.

I have posted the effect several times. Although I did not know why the credit was reduced. Thanks for the tip.
I skipped Leaf business deduction in 2011 for this reason. I will put Leaf into business service for 2012 and see if IRS tries to claw the money back.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”