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Randy
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:21 pm

gmuzhik wrote:Warning to Leaf buyers in 2011: I Thought everything was fine about getting my full $7500 credit according to Turbotax which I very carefully checked. Yesterday, I just got a letter from the IRS denying $3300 of the $7500 credit. Turbotax did not catch this for some unknown reason. The reason from the IRS was, and I quote: "Some credits are limited to the difference between your tax before credits and tentative minimum tax from Form 6251". My income is not that high and I am still getting hammered by this little known problem. I have spent hours online researching this to little or no avail.

Does anyone know how to fight this?

Thanks in advance,
Gary Dressel



Sorry to hear that, Gary...I filed in early March using TurboTax and received my refund (including the entire $7500) about 3 weeks later...It will be interesting to see what happens with other buyers (including me)...

thankyouOB
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:43 pm

smkettner wrote:Turbo tax filled out some form for me and refund was had in about three weeks.


what EVDRIVER said.
If you are trying to get a $7500 credit, plus perhaps credit for the EVSE, it pays to hire someone.
I dont have a simple return because my wife runs several businesses and files a schedule c.
on top of the usual fee of $700, I paid $100 extra to my guy to solve this issue. He had to go back several times to the computer people.
But it went through.

maybe there will be some issue down the road.

In addition, for future buyers or those who bought in 2012, you will want to use your ira to roth transfer to be sure you have enough liability to get the credit. over transfer; you can always adjust back.

that is the only advice I can provide. I got both the ev and evse credits and have an agi in five figures.
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EdmondLeaf
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:59 pm

So far I was not able to find anywhere that credit from 8936 is subject to TMT or AMT, however this is very clear for 8911 Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit
17 Tentative minimum tax (see instructions):

gmuzhik
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:11 pm

EdmondLeaf: Yes, that is my point! There is no mention of the form 8936 limitation from TMT or AMT, yet the IRS hammered me saying it is limited. I will be calling them to challenge! I'll post the results of that.
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ksnogas2112
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:39 pm

According to my research (limited though it is) it appears that this only applies if you are married filing jointly and have household income over $150k. Any one else see something I missed?
Tom in KS
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gmuzhik
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:09 pm

Not sure where you are getting the $150K and married filing jointly condition, but in my case, I am single and have income in the mid to upper five digit range. I have never paid AMT and wouldn't have paid it this year as it shows up as $0 on the form 1040 line 45. The IRS still says my Leaf credit is substantially reduced as stated earlier by $3300. The way to check is to do form 6251 and compare line 31 or 54 with your total tax on form 1040, line 61. In my case, the IRS took the higher one on form 6251. There is nothing I can find that supports this. You can bet, I will be challenging them. I wish I knew of a good tax professional who knows how to dig deep for an answer.
San Diego, CA

tps
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:23 pm

GeekEV wrote:If you don't even have a $7,500 tax liability the issue is that you're not rich ENOUGH.

I have never had a $7500 tax liability. I leased, so I got the entire $7500. Of course, I'll probably end up paying more, given the finance charges. I guess I will pay NMAC instead of the feds...

smkettner
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:24 pm

thankyouOB wrote:
smkettner wrote:Turbo tax filled out some form for me and refund was had in about three weeks.


what EVDRIVER said.
If you are trying to get a $7500 credit, plus perhaps credit for the EVSE, it pays to hire someone.
I dont have a simple return because my wife runs several businesses and files a schedule c.
on top of the usual fee of $700, I paid $100 extra to my guy to solve this issue. He had to go back several times to the computer people.
But it went through.

maybe there will be some issue down the road.

In addition, for future buyers or those who bought in 2012, you will want to use your ira to roth transfer to be sure you have enough liability to get the credit. over transfer; you can always adjust back.

that is the only advice I can provide. I got both the ev and evse credits and have an agi in five figures.

I have schedule C & E. There was a reduction in the credit if I claimed the car as business deduction. So I skipped the Leaf used for business deduction in 2011. I will start my deductions in 2012, just standard mileage rates.
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planet4ever
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:41 pm

gmuzhik wrote:The way to check is to do form 6251 and compare line 31 or 54 with your total tax on form 1040, line 61. In my case, the IRS took the higher one on form 6251. There is nothing I can find that supports this.
That restriction does, in effect, apply to form 8911, the EVSE credit. If your TMT is that high you will definitely not get anything for the EVSE credit, and you shouldn't even try. Did you perhaps submit 8911 along with your other tax forms? I am beginning to suspect that some person or computer program at the IRS is getting the rules for 8911 and 8936 confused. My nonprofessional advice is to resubmit without form 8911 if your TMT (form 6251 line 33) is anywhere within $8K of your regular tax before credits (form 1040 line 46).

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

GaslessInSeattle
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Re: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:15 pm

It sounds like it's not so random. our refund status on the IRS web site has been "Your tax return has been received and is being processed" for many months. We filed in early February and it's getting kind of nerve wracking. It appears that a few things could be adding to the delay. Our tax person has called and found that they are "investigating" the claim and that the main red flag is the EV credit. Our accountant told us we are in IRS limbo land, where it takes many weeks, sometimes months to get shuffled around. From the talk she had with an IRS rep last week, we will likely have to come up with the invoice and prove we actually bought the car but won't even be given the chance till 30 days passes from the time the investigation started or something like that. I have never had such a large return as we have better planned withholdings in the past. In hind sight, our accountant suggests trying to avoid ever having a refund over $10,000, as it automatically flags your account.

for folks buying this year, I would consider claiming more exemptions as you go if you can to keep the actual refund from being large... at the very least, you won't be wringing your hands for months waiting for a big refund check.



oakwcj wrote:
mwalsh wrote:I don't know about that, but I do know that the IRS is sitting on my tax return for this year. I've had private discussion with someone else in the same situation and who has contacted them - he's waiting on "an investigator" being assigned to his "case"! :shock:


I don't think it's quite that ominous. The IRS randomly selects some returns claiming certain large tax credits. They go to the "examination" -- not the "investigation" -- department to be looked at by an "examiner." The only problem I have with the process is that it is taking way too much time.
Last edited by GaslessInSeattle on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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