2013 Leaf will add 6.6kW & new efficient heater

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NYLEAF

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Long Island, NY
(Sorry if this has been posted already...)

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/20/nissan-leaf-update-will-add-new-heater-25-miles-of-range/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Lest anyone misunderstand the specifics, the 2013 Leaf will have a more efficient heater to avoid losing up to 25 miles of range in cold weather. The overall range will not be greater than it is now.

So far, we don't know how Nissan will increase that heater efficiency. Heat pump? Ethanol burner like the Volvo C30? We can only guess.

As for other details, the 6.6kWh charger has been confirmed, as well as options for darker or leather upholstery.

Meh. I'm happier than ever to be taking delivery of my Leaf one week from tomorrow. :D None of the above strikes me as worth waiting any longer.
 
heat pump?

or are we talking a new battery heater that warms the battery to say 70 degrees during prewarming? either could make a substantial difference in cold whether.
 
We were told a heat pump and resistance heating by Mark Perry on Dec 3.

Heat pump is only good to about 40F, then still resistance below that.

Please change the title to not let people think the range is increased.
 
did they give you any idea how they were going to gain back that 25 miles of range in cold. a heat pump that only works to about 40, which is where you really start feeling the need for heat, will help some, but it's below 40 where the resistive heater really starts chewing up electrons. is this 25 miles of gain realistic? Seems Nissan needs to work on managing expectations. any time you over state an expectation you turn a moderate improvement that should be celebrated into a disappointment.

TonyWilliams said:
We were told a heat pump and resistance heating by Mark Perry on Dec 3.

Heat pump is only good to about 40F, then still resistance below that.

Please change the title to not let people think the range is increased.
 
To me, this falls in to the same category as the proclamation that the Leaf has a 100 mile range... Yeah, under ideal conditions and with a conservative driver...
 
For me, if it's above 40 (and this is where a heat pump would kick in), I don't really need the added efficiency. It is nice to have though since it gives you the flexibility to run the heat between 40 and 60 degrees with little loss in range. Heated seat is enough for me above 40 though.

The 6.6KWh charger...is nice. :)
 
Heat pump won't help when it's below freezing outside. 6.6kWh charger will be nice. Interior choices are good to have. But the real question is: How much more will it cost this time?

If it will cost the same, I'll cancel my order and hold out for a 2013.
 
kubel said:
Heat pump won't help when it's below freezing outside. 6.6kWh charger will be nice. Interior choices are good to have. But the real question is: How much more will it cost this time?

If it will cost the same, I'll cancel my order and hold out for a 2013.

Again, a proper heat pump with a modern refridgeant (R410 or CO2 or a few others) will work well down to at least around 5 F, that's -15C or so. -16 C was the coldest weather I drove my Leaf in this winter.
 
Welp, that's the absolute worst complaint I had addressed :)

I don't know if this is a universal, but in my area about 80% of the time I need the heater it's in the 35-50's range. Seldom below freezing. And Jebus the current heater chews through charge...

Assuming they can make the heater work under most situations with a similar draw to the downright surprisingly efficient A/C, that's a huge win.
 
Modern heat pumps work just fine to temps well below freezing. Efficiency and heat output is reduced, but it can easily still be twice as efficient as resistance heat.
 
I expected the charger change to 6.6kW and it is needed. It will give you about a 25% charge in an hr stop for dinner. The heater is really a winner as it is a major draw when in use. However, I've only used it about five times this winter. I tend to use the heated seats more.

I wish they would decouple the climate control with the fan. Allowing us to turn the fan on without ether Heater or A/C. Fans is necessary for defrost. What would realy be good is to extend the range to 210 miles on the interstate. This would might be the same as bringing the battery pack up to 70 kWh or so.

Another great improvement would be an extended range trailer or carrier option that runs on a BBQ grill size LP tank. Look at the Bladon microjet genset http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-dep...-enable-jaguar-turbine-hybrid/1005528.article

All in all I'm happy with my 2012 and look forward to a next generation in 2015/16
 
"jkirkebo"
Again, a proper heat pump with a modern refridgeant (R410 or CO2 or a few others) will work well down to at least around 5 F...

By "well", I assume you mean at marginally greater efficiency, than the resistance back-up?

I really think there is so much variability of heat pump designs and operating efficiency, we won't know the actual energy savings, and cost increase, over the current heater, till it comes out.

My guess-and it is a wild guess-is that adding a HP cycle, at additional cost of cost about $200-400, could increase "average" heater efficiency by about 50%, the largest part of these savings occurring in the higher "not too cold" temps.

At that low ambient temperature, that the design requires it revert back to resistance, it will have no benefit at all.

So at some (unknown) low cold temp, it will produce no energy savings, or extra range, at all.

And, it will be most beneficial, where it is often cold-but not very.

I doubt it will ever produce "25 miles" of range, except over a long period of low speed driving, ("LEAF 100 mile range" miles) and on 40+ F days, when it operates more efficiently, than when it is colder.
 
edatoakrun said:
"jkirkebo"
Again, a proper heat pump with a modern refridgeant (R410 or CO2 or a few others) will work well down to at least around 5 F...

I doubt it will ever produce "25 miles" of range, except over a long period of low speed driving, ("LEAF 100 mile range" miles) and on 40+ F days, when it operates more efficiently, than when it is colder.


I've found that completely free and open use of the heater on a 40-degree day is well over a 25-mile loss in comparison to no use of the heater in the same weather. I started the winter shocked at how much loss the car had in the cold, and though only a portion was attributable to the heater, but I eventually figured out that the loss was overwhelmingly heater with a measurable but not severe loss if I just stuck it out and dealt with the cold. There were a couple days where I said "eff it, I'm cranking the heat!" and more than once I pushed 40-mile total range on 80% charge - but I could easily get in the 60's with the heater off. Expand that to 100% and 25 miles is definitely there to regain.

Compare that to a/c, where setting it to 60 and keeping the fan low (which easily kept temps very comfortable even at 110* Arkansas heat in my black car), which made literally no discernible difference in range (it always drew 1.5kw for about a minute then dropped to a sliver and stayed there, and I always ended the day with similar m/kwh, with similar charge remaining, as compared to the 70's days where I had no climate control at all).

If they can get close to that efficiency, 25 miles is regained actually realistic under some circumstances.

But really, 15 miles reclaimed would be a nice big win.
 
garygid said:
When the Heat Pump's heat exchanger coils go below Freezing,
how do they deal with being clogged with ice (frozen moisture)?
Run it in AC mode which heats up the heat exchanger melting the ice and also dehumidifies the interior. The colder it gets usually means more frequent defrost cycles which decreases efficiency (especially considering that backup resistance heat will typically kick in during this time to maintain temps inside).
 
kubel said:
How much more will it cost this time?

If it will cost the same, I'll cancel my order and hold out for a 2013.
Another question I have is whether there will be significant differences in quality between the built in Japan Leafs and the assembled in US ones. And for that answer, we'll need to wait for the first cars to leave Smyrna.
 
N952JL said:
I expected the charger change to 6.6kW and it is needed. It will give you about a 25% charge in an hr stop for dinner.
Assuming the increase is linear, should be more like 38% in one hour. I timed a one hour charge with my Gidometer and got 19%.
 
Stoaty said:
N952JL said:
I expected the charger change to 6.6kW and it is needed. It will give you about a 25% charge in an hr stop for dinner.
Assuming the increase is linear, should be more like 38% in one hour. I timed a one hour charge with my Gidometer and got 19%.

I always get 20% an hour with my Blink. I've had it over nine months and it's never failed to charge.
 
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