lorenfb
Posts: 1835
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Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:17 am

RegGuheert wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
The South Korean battery cell maker, SK innovation announced that its new NCM 811 cells will be available this December. First for battery storage systems, then in third quarter of 2018, for electric vehicles.
Yes, we'll have to wait and see if it becomes reality.
Agreed. We do know that LG Chem is planning to supply their NCM811 cell for the 2019 LEAF. What we don't know, and what I am speculating about, is the possibility that some other vendor is supplying similar 811 cells for the 2018 LEAF. But I could be completely off-base here.


If the technology is 'there', surely someone will capitalize on it.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 469
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Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:08 pm

So I just had an interesting conversation with a Nissan sales rep (part of the 2018 leaf sales force), and she wasn't aware of a warranty against capacity degradation (only the 8y defect warranty) on the 2018 leaf. Also, there's no 80% charge limiter either, unless you have Nissan Connect (no different from current owners).

So (speculation!) worse case scenario is that 40kwh leaf owners will be SOL if their battery degrades rapidly due to heat/poor-battery-management. Was the lack of a capacity warranty already known?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

DanCar
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:27 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:... Was the lack of a capacity warranty already known?
I'm confident there will be a warranty against degradation, but it will be meaningless like the current one, which says 9 bars , and Nissan gets to define and redefine what 9 bars means.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:31 pm

DanCar wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:... Was the lack of a capacity warranty already known?
I'm confident there will be a warranty against degradation, but it will be meaningless like the current one, which says 9 bars , and Nissan gets to define and redefine what 9 bars means.


I hope so. But 2018 Leaf sales rep does NOT know of one. I'm waiting to see an explicit warranty claim. The bolt has an explicit 60% capacity degradation warranty, while Tesla does NOT warrant against capacity degradation.

On a positive side, from a spy shot of the 2018 leaf's dash console, they've done away with the "bars" of battery life identifier, and replaced it with something that seems to indicate a direct % of battery life. That change should make any capacity warranty less arbitrary.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

SageBrush
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:On a positive side, from a spy shot of the 2018 leaf's dash console, they've done away with the "bars" of battery life identifier, and replaced it with something that seems to indicate a direct % of battery life. That change should make any capacity warranty less arbitrary.

Though nothing prevents Nissan from changing the calculation of remaining capacity whenever they feel like it.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:31 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:guilded age of EVs


http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-1-cover/

Wasn't sure what you meant, so I looked it up. Hmmm... Still not sure what you meant.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:31 pm

WetEV wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:guilded age of EVs


http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-1-cover/

Wasn't sure what you meant, so I looked it up. Hmmm... Still not sure what you meant.

:lol: Guilding the Lilly :lol:
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

SageBrush
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:03 pm

WetEV wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:guilded age of EVs


http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-1-cover/

Wasn't sure what you meant, so I looked it up. Hmmm... Still not sure what you meant.

I presume the golden age ...
referring to batteries with a TMS perhaps
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:38 pm

"Golden Age" and "Gilded Age," even though they literally mean the same thing, have different connotations. "Golden Age" refers to the best years of an era (usually named thus in retrospect), while "Gilded Age" implies corruption, especially political and business corruption.
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 40kWh pack speculation/what do we know?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:09 am

LeftieBiker wrote:"Golden Age" and "Gilded Age," even though they literally mean the same thing, have different connotations. "Golden Age" refers to the best years of an era (usually named thus in retrospect), while "Gilded Age" implies corruption, especially political and business corruption.

Sometimes you hear about "the second golden age" of something if it has a rebirth, but can there ever be another gilded age? Is Jeff Bezos just Henry Flagler a century later?
I'll hazard a guess nobody said hey this feels like the gilded age when it was happening, and these things are mostly recognized retrospectively.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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