2016 Apr Plugin Sales Discussion : Leaf 787 - Total ?

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evnow

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
11,480
Location
Seattle, WA
Leaf sales continue to flounder. I can think of a few things that Nissan did wrong
- 30 kWh model was introduced too late
- SV vs S price difference is too much ($5K)
- The lease rates were atrociously high in the beginning. It has come down now, though ...

And then the outside factors
- Bolt announced
- Model 3 announced

So, if there is going to be an EV with double the range for same price, why would you buy a Leaf now - esp. since the lease rates were high ?
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
+1, and it'll only get worse as the year goes on. They might as well roll out the gen 2 and be first to market.
I'm sure they would - if they were ready.

Given all the back&forth about LG & AESC battery, not sure Nissan is ready.
 
Not being ready didn't stop Ghosn from releasing Leaf 1, but after the result, I guess he's containing himself this time. I have until August 2017, so should be out by then. Hopefully a 60 kWh eNV200 too.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Not being ready didn't stop Ghosn from releasing Leaf 1, but after the result, I guess he's containing himself this time. I have until August 2017, so should be out by then. Hopefully a 60 kWh eNV200 too.
Ofcourse, OTOH, an engineer has never self reported to be ready ;)
 
Trouble is a good portion of the price is the battery. And Nissan has a poorly performing battery IMO.

VOLT battery reputation should inspire confidence in BOLT.
Same with Tesla having a good battery reputation.
 
Meanwhile, starting around 3:16 of http://nbr.com/2016/05/03/nightly-business-report-may-3-2016-2/, they mention red hot sales of the Ford F-150 truck, Chevy Silverado and SUVs.

Per http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-group-reports-april-2016-u-s-sales, US Leaf sales are down 49.3% vs. the same period last year and down 34.1% YTD. Total Nissan group sales are up 12.8% vs. same month last year and up 9.8% CYTD.

I am a bit surprised that per http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, Volt sales are still so strong, given that CA green HOV stickers are gone. I guess they're still wanted in general and/or outside CA.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-auto-sales-20160503-story.html says stuff like
"Amererica's love of trucks and SUVs helped push the auto industry to its best April ever, with most automakers reporting healthy increases.
...
Honda and Nissan set April records, Ford posted record SUV sales and Toyota sold more trucks and SUVs than ever.
...
Ford Motor Co. said it sold more than 65,000 SUVs, the best April in company history, led by the Explorer with a 22% increase. At Nissan Motor Co., cars and SUVs pushed sales up. Fiat Chrysler was led by a 17% increase in sales of Jeep SUVs. It was FCA US' best April since 2005."

Sigh...
 
biggest mistake was not allowing 30 kwh on the S trim. Since the S trim was introduced in 2013, it has dominated LEAF sales further proving that EVs are still too expensive. Instead of delaying intro of LEAF II to get a few more miles out of it, they need to figure out a way to intro it now with 75% more range and a $5,000 cheaper than the competition
 
+1 OP. The external factors played an important role. Many people didn't want to get locked into a 3 year lease knowing that Gen2, Bolt are around the corner. Telsa 3 maybe a while and by the time you properly config that vehicle so it may not be the same price range anyway.

Also, it did not help when the lease prices were quoted at over $500 a month. I think the stealers got a little too cocky with 30 kWh and it backfired. Yes, the prices have come down now but now most are waiting for second Gen EVs.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
.... I have until August 2017, so should be out by then. Hopefully a 60 kWh eNV200 too.
I'd be happy with any eNV200! well I suppose it would have to have at least a 30kWh battery to even equal a Leaf with a 24kWh battery and I'd prefer a larger battery but come on Nissan(or anyone!) come out with a smaller BEV utility van, I think they'd be surprised of the market. Extend the body and make it a 7 passenger(like the Transit connect or eNV200 in other markets) and you'll have a family hauler hit on your hands!
 
cwerdna said:
..., they mention red hot sales of the Ford F-150 truck, Chevy Silverado and SUVs...Sigh...

EDI_CAFE_April-2016.png


yet last months CAFE rating was higher than the yearly average in recent years. And 2016 is looking to more fuel efficient than last year and all the recent preceding years.
 
cwerdna said:
Meanwhile, starting around 3:16 of http://nbr.com/2016/05/03/nightly-business-report-may-3-2016-2/, they mention red hot sales of the Ford F-150 truck, Chevy Silverado and SUVs.

Per http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-group-reports-april-2016-u-s-sales, US Leaf sales are down 49.3% vs. the same period last year and down 34.1% YTD. Total Nissan group sales are up 12.8% vs. same month last year and up 9.8% CYTD.

I am a bit surprised that per http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, Volt sales are still so strong, given that CA green HOV stickers are gone. I guess they're still wanted in general and/or outside CA. <snip>
I've been somewhat surprised at the number of Volt 2's I see here, despite the loss of the stickers. There's been a few that got in under the wire and had them, but the vast majority I see don't. I think people realize it's a pretty good, flexible car even without the perk, although it's still too expensive. I concur with your <sigh>, but at least there's a much higher percentage of small CUVs rather than hulking truck-based SUVs (those you call BROD-class) in the mix these days. Even the standard pickups are improving in fuel-efficiency.
 
Swimming a bit upstream here, I might actually consider buying a 2016 SV, although that would mainly happen if incentives (NY finally has one! but I don't know if it will apply to leasing) make buying the same cost or cheaper. Failing that I'll probably lease one, now that lease rates are falling. I only need a solid 100 miles of range, and I think that, knowing what I know now, I can limit degradation to 10% in the few years I'm likely to be driving it. With the Bolt and especially with the Model 3, I'd be much more worried about early production Buggy-ness than I'd be with a Leaf. I need to get another car within the next 12 months, and in that time frame the Leaf looks best to me.
 
jjeff said:
DNAinaGoodWay said:
.... I have until August 2017, so should be out by then. Hopefully a 60 kWh eNV200 too.
I'd be happy with any eNV200! well I suppose it would have to have at least a 30kWh battery to even equal a Leaf with a 24kWh battery and I'd prefer a larger battery but come on Nissan(or anyone!) come out with a smaller BEV utility van, I think they'd be surprised of the market. Extend the body and make it a 7 passenger(like the Transit connect or eNV200 in other markets) and you'll have a family hauler hit on your hands!

DC2u.1 small.jpg

Too bad Ford Fleet Vehicles are not available to the general public
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
<snip>


Too bad Ford Fleet Vehicles are not available to the general public
Wouldn't matter, as IIRR Ford discontinued the Transit Connect EV a couple of years back: http://wardsauto.com/industry/ford-support-transit-connect-ev-owners-following-azure-bankruptcy
 
GRA said:
cwerdna said:
Meanwhile, starting around 3:16 of http://nbr.com/2016/05/03/nightly-business-report-may-3-2016-2/, they mention red hot sales of the Ford F-150 truck, Chevy Silverado and SUVs.

Per http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-group-reports-april-2016-u-s-sales, US Leaf sales are down 49.3% vs. the same period last year and down 34.1% YTD. Total Nissan group sales are up 12.8% vs. same month last year and up 9.8% CYTD.

I am a bit surprised that per http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, Volt sales are still so strong, given that CA green HOV stickers are gone. I guess they're still wanted in general and/or outside CA. <snip>
I've been somewhat surprised at the number of Volt 2's I see here, despite the loss of the stickers. There's been a few that got in under the wire and had them, but the vast majority I see don't. I think people realize it's a pretty good, flexible car even without the perk, although it's still too expensive. I concur with your <sigh>, but at least there's a much higher percentage of small CUVs rather than hulking truck-based SUVs (those you call BROD-class) in the mix these days.
Yeah. BRoD aka Battering Ram of Death to me == full-sized guzzler SUV that weigh over 5000+ lbs and are usually sub-20 mpg combined. Most of them also have terrible accident avoidance capability via terrible handling and brakes.

I just shake my head and am disgusted when I see so many of those running around driven solo and/or w/minimal passengers and cargo. It blows my mind further when I see brand new ones running around, like the solo-driven Yukon XL I saw today w/dealer placards still.

From http://media.gm.com/dld/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/may/0503-gmsales/_jcr_content/rightpar/sectioncontainer_0/par/download_0/file.res/GM-Deliveries-April-2016.pdf, in the month that 787 Leafs were sold in the US, these GM BRoD were sold in the US.
Escalade: 1,808
Escalade ESV 1,199
Suburban: 4,269
Tahoe: 7,549
Yukon: 3,324
Yukon XL: 2,518

The ESV, Suburban and Yukon XL are extended length versions, so they're even longer and heavier.

That's over 16K units! Then there are BRoDs from other automakers. Disgusting. :(
 
Yeah. BRoD aka Battering Ram of Death to me == full-sized guzzler SUV that weigh over 5000+ lbs and are usually sub-20 mpg combined. Most of them also have terrible accident avoidance capability via terrible handling and brakes.

I just shake my head and am disgusted when I see so many of those running around driven solo and/or w/minimal passengers and cargo.(

I tried to live without a pickup truck but I just couldn't do it.

Our stable includes our
A 2015 Leaf as our daily driver 90% usage

A 2015 Lexus RX450h hybrid SUV when we need to transport more than 2 adults or travel more than 40 miles from home 5% usage

A 2016 Ford F-150 for lumber, fertilizer, sod runs etc. 5% usage
 
Flyct said:
I tried to live without a pickup truck but I just couldn't do it.
Yeah, but in your case you are using the right tool for the job. I don't think anyone is going to give you a hard time about that.

Now, not everyone can afford 3 vehicles, but people tend to buy much larger vehicles than they really need, "just in case". Too many people fall victim to the though that "bigger is better".
 
In much of the L.A. area, the HOV lanes now move no faster than the regular lanes so it is not that big a difference or consideration any more... I gave it little thought.

cwerdna said:
I am a bit surprised that per http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, Volt sales are still so strong, given that CA green HOV stickers are gone. I guess they're still wanted in general and/or outside CA.
 
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