HELP.. Georgia Tax Increases imposed on electric vehicles

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LeafOwnerATL

New member
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
1
Hi Everyone,

I'm not sure if you know but Rep. Chuck Martin, R-Alpharetta, GA added on to bill at the last minute to increase taxes on electric vehicle owners.
The Annual registration is $200 the highest in the nation. He came up with the number, in his own words, "I guessed that people driving electric vehicles twice as much as other people and then I doubled that. It's what I call napkin or fuzzy math.." He also introduced legislation to do away with the $5,000 Tax credit at the same time. This was all approved last minute and not allowed to be debated on the floor with citizens of Georgia. In looking at his campaign fund raising it looks like he may have ties to big oil....

I am starting campaign to make sure this idiot doesn't get elected again.
To start his I ask you all to go voice your displeasure of this idiots Fuzzy math and idiot tax increases on his Facebook page.. if enough people do it then it will get attention from the local media and we will be able to have our voices heard.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/State-Rep-Chuck-Martin/59307301393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
I'm in GA. Wasn't aware of the $200 annual fee hike until you just pointed it out. Can you send me a link to Rep. Martin's ludicrous comment about it? I think you should share that with everyone on this forum and anyone else that will listen. I will do the same.

We are saving too much money with these cars, so the State of Georgia has to get its "fair share" I guess. Man, has that term really changed since I was a kid. One used to have to demonstrate what they had done in order to EARN/DESERVE their fair share. No more. But, I digress.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It sucks, but at least it won't be a surprise in the mail.
 
LeafOwnerATL said:
The Annual registration is $200 the highest in the nation. ... He also introduced legislation to do away with the $5,000 Tax credit at the same time.
I think that $5000 state tax credit was also the highest in the nation too, but that's not an outrage right?
 
jpadc said:
LeafOwnerATL said:
The Annual registration is $200 the highest in the nation. ... He also introduced legislation to do away with the $5,000 Tax credit at the same time.
I think that $5000 state tax credit was also the highest in the nation too, but that's not an outrage right?

CO is higher. But this is beside the point. If a government wants to incentivize a new and better technology to get it to cost competitive, that's fine. But arbitrarily and (I believe) punitively taxing the new and better technology doesn't make sense. I'm fine with people paying for access to the roads they use, both on a congestion and wear basis. No one in GA is being charged for congestion. And small sedans provide far less road wear than big vehicles. There's no reason for small sedans to pay 2-4 times the cost of a larger vehicle to compensate for their road wear. Many in the area have said that it seems like a way for people in the suburbs (conservative) to tax Atlanta liberals.
 
I've just taken the state for $10k, making it nearly free for me to drive for the last 2 years and the next 2 years. If they want $200/yr, fine... it'll take 50 years at that rate to break even with me.
 
jpadc said:
LeafOwnerATL said:
The Annual registration is $200 the highest in the nation. ... He also introduced legislation to do away with the $5,000 Tax credit at the same time.
I think that $5000 state tax credit was also the highest in the nation too, but that's not an outrage right?
It is when it removes this for consumers, but keeps it for business. At least that is what I read about this new bill.
 
I thought Virginia tacking on an extra $64 was bad.. I am grateful now that it is only $64. :lol: I never received a state incentive for either our Volt or Leaf so that point is mute on me. Would have been nice to get but not necessary. Hopefully this guy doesn't get re-elected though. Sounds like an idiot. I figure with VA gas taxes my $64 is equivalent to paying the VA gas tax on 376 gallons of gas (which I come nowhere even close to using in a year). Figure in a 30mpg car that gets you just over 10,000 miles which is what I drive the Leaf in a year. So for me in my state is spot on. I even think $100 might be reasonable, but $200 is just crazy.
 
Gasoline tax in GA is 45 cents/gallon. If the LEAF were a gasoline car getting 30mpg being driven the typical 12,000 miles/year, it would have used 400 gallons, costing the owner $180 in tax, so $200 isn't too far off.

It might be worth that just to shut them up.

Note however, that out of that 45 cents/gallon tax, 18.4 cents is federal tax, so the state really needs to be forwarding $73 of that $200 to Washington. Make sure they do that. :lol:
 
forummm said:
CO is higher. But this is beside the point. If a government wants to incentivize a new and better technology to get it to cost competitive, that's fine.
Then it should be equally fine for that same government to decide that they have done so enough.
forummm said:
There's no reason for small sedans to pay 2-4 times the cost of a larger vehicle to compensate for their road wear.
As others have shown, $200 per year is very comparable to what other small sedans would pay in gasoline taxes for the road. Of course it sounds like EV owners still need to pay a registration fee on top of that "road use fee" to be the fair.
forummm said:
Many in the area have said that it seems like a way for people in the suburbs (conservative) to tax Atlanta liberals.
Politics can be ugly and maybe those are the motives of some, but since all the taxpayers of GA had to pay for the $5k tax credit and all loose the road use taxes it seems like they all should have a say (even the ones in the suburbs) if the program continues. I assume that the entire legislature voted on that change, not just the one specific politician.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of EV specific fees. I think all gasoline taxes should be eliminated and all registered vehicles should pay a road use fee based on their weight and the miles they drive. That in my view would be more fair.
 
This was discussed in today's Atlanta Journal Constitution, buried toward the end of an article about the bill as a whole. These items were included in a much larger transportation bill.

There are pros/cons to the tax incentives provided, which I don't intend to debate. For one, Georgia wants more technology firms and technology workers to locate here, so the incentive furthers that objective to a degree.

The state legislature voted to discontinue the incentive, and the governor signed it, so we will just have to wait and see what the impact of that decision is, beginning in July. There's no question sales will drop off for some period of time, after a huge May/June ahead of the deadline, and then those considering a vehicle purchase sans the state incentive will just have to consider the $200 annual fee in their calculations.

I don't consider a $200 annual fee an "outrage", but I would appreciate understanding the rationale and/or the math behind it...directly from my representative and not just conjecture. Unless I find it elsewhere, I will be writing a letter asking for exactly that, and will post back any response I receive.
 
Georgia population `10,000,000
USA vehicle parc 240,000,000
USA population 320,000,000
USA vehicles older than 10 years old 38%
Georgia road maintenance cost $1,000,000,000 pa

(1-38%) x (240,000,000/320,000,000) x 10,000,000 = 4,650,000 vehicles under 10 years old, in USA state population same as Georgia.
$1,000,000,000 / 4,650,000 = $215 per vehicle for annual road maintenance cost.


Unfortunately, it seems that a poll tax of $215 per vehicle in Georgia would be reasonable for just road maintenance cost.
 
ydnas7 said:
Unfortunately, it seems that a poll tax of $215 per vehicle in Georgia would be reasonable for just road maintenance cost.
Fine - so eliminate the state's gas tax and add $200 to all registered vehicles.

TomT said:
I believe that, sometimes, EVers are just greedy...
Or perhaps, the EVer realizes that grandma who wants to buy a LEAF to drive to and from the grocery store a few times a week and puts on a couple thousand miles per year, will be paying significantly higher road taxes per mile than if she bought a F250, instead.
 
Sublime said:
I've just taken the state for $10k, making it nearly free for me to drive for the last 2 years and the next 2 years. If they want $200/yr, fine... it'll take 50 years at that rate to break even with me.

If you got 2 cars (for the $10k), then you will be paying $400/year.

I would not have purchased either Leaf without the $5k credit. The point of the credit is to get people to be able to buy the cars because they are now cost-competitive. So it does not follow that after that threshold has been reached, you can try to punitively tax back that money.
 
TomT said:
I believe that, sometimes, EVers are just greedy...

jpadc said:
[I think that $5000 state tax credit was also the highest in the nation too, but that's not an outrage right?

Maybe some are. But I made a decision to purchase based on the economics presented to me at the time. I would not have purchased otherwise. If there was no credit, fine. There would be fewer sales.
 
knightmb said:
jpadc said:
LeafOwnerATL said:
The Annual registration is $200 the highest in the nation. ... He also introduced legislation to do away with the $5,000 Tax credit at the same time.
I think that $5000 state tax credit was also the highest in the nation too, but that's not an outrage right?
It is when it removes this for consumers, but keeps it for business. At least that is what I read about this new bill.

Yes, at the same time they imposed a new tax on EV owners, they created a tax exemption on Mercedes Benz employees buying a Mercedes.
 
jpadc said:
forummm said:
CO is higher. But this is beside the point. If a government wants to incentivize a new and better technology to get it to cost competitive, that's fine.
Then it should be equally fine for that same government to decide that they have done so enough.
forummm said:
There's no reason for small sedans to pay 2-4 times the cost of a larger vehicle to compensate for their road wear.
As others have shown, $200 per year is very comparable to what other small sedans would pay in gasoline taxes for the road. Of course it sounds like EV owners still need to pay a registration fee on top of that "road use fee" to be the fair.
forummm said:
Many in the area have said that it seems like a way for people in the suburbs (conservative) to tax Atlanta liberals.
Politics can be ugly and maybe those are the motives of some, but since all the taxpayers of GA had to pay for the $5k tax credit and all loose the road use taxes it seems like they all should have a say (even the ones in the suburbs) if the program continues. I assume that the entire legislature voted on that change, not just the one specific politician.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of EV specific fees. I think all gasoline taxes should be eliminated and all registered vehicles should pay a road use fee based on their weight and the miles they drive. That in my view would be more fair.

If they want to cut off the credits, that's fine. I don't think it's great public policy, but they can do what they want going forward.

$200/year per car is much more than what GA would have gotten in gas tax from me. GA would have gotten about $50 in gas taxes if I'd just kept my ICEs. I object to the differential tax on me.

I would be happy for all vehicles in every state to have a road maintenance fee imposed that is an accurate function of the congestion they cause, vehicle weight, and miles driven. That's not what's happening here.
 
forummm said:
Sublime said:
I've just taken the state for $10k, making it nearly free for me to drive for the last 2 years and the next 2 years. If they want $200/yr, fine... it'll take 50 years at that rate to break even with me.

If you got 2 cars (for the $10k), then you will be paying $400/year.

I would not have purchased either Leaf without the $5k credit. The point of the credit is to get people to be able to buy the cars because they are now cost-competitive. So it does not follow that after that threshold has been reached, you can try to punitively tax back that money.

I mean $5k 2 years ago and $5k this year. I won't debate you on what is fair or unfair, just stating that I'm fat and happy right now in regards to state taxes, even with an annual not-gas tax.

From what I heard, this tax credit was always a gamble for GA. ATL and Macon exceeded some air quality standard set by the federal government to receive DOT money for interstate improvements. Right now, they can either foot the bill or appeal to the DOT that the planned improvement is for safety in those 2 cities. The thinking was that if enough cars got switched out for EVs, it would help get those two cities back under the air quality standards. The potential payoff in DOT money would dwarf the amount in EV subsidies. I think what they realized is that a large percentage (if not most) of the power in GA is coal generated, so the overall benefit didn't measure up to the subsidies.
 
Sublime said:
forummm said:
Sublime said:
I've just taken the state for $10k, making it nearly free for me to drive for the last 2 years and the next 2 years. If they want $200/yr, fine... it'll take 50 years at that rate to break even with me.

If you got 2 cars (for the $10k), then you will be paying $400/year.

I would not have purchased either Leaf without the $5k credit. The point of the credit is to get people to be able to buy the cars because they are now cost-competitive. So it does not follow that after that threshold has been reached, you can try to punitively tax back that money.

I mean $5k 2 years ago and $5k this year. I won't debate you on what is fair or unfair, just stating that I'm fat and happy right now in regards to state taxes, even with an annual not-gas tax.

From what I heard, this tax credit was always a gamble for GA. ATL and Macon exceeded some air quality standard set by the federal government to receive DOT money for interstate improvements. Right now, they can either foot the bill or appeal to the DOT that the planned improvement is for safety in those 2 cities. The thinking was that if enough cars got switched out for EVs, it would help get those two cities back under the air quality standards. The potential payoff in DOT money would dwarf the amount in EV subsidies. I think what they realized is that a large percentage (if not most) of the power in GA is coal generated, so the overall benefit didn't measure up to the subsidies.

Interesting thoughts. It's about 40% coal (http://www.georgiapower.com/about-energy/energy-sources/home.cshtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). But the coal can be burned away from population centers and disperses somewhat by the time it gets to where peopl are. Motor vehicle exhaust is more locally problematic because it happens right where everyone is. EPA definitely takes that into consideration because they make measurements in population centers to measure impact on health. Even with GA's 40% goal, about 1/3 is gas (low emissions) and the rest (1/4) is pollution free. So an EV is still less-polluting than an ICE. But maybe not enough cleaner to get enough federal money to make up for the tax credit.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Gasoline tax in GA is 45 cents/gallon. If the LEAF were a gasoline car getting 30mpg being driven the typical 12,000 miles/year, it would have used 400 gallons, costing the owner $180 in tax, so $200 isn't too far off.

It might be worth that just to shut them up.

Note however, that out of that 45 cents/gallon tax, 18.4 cents is federal tax, so the state really needs to be forwarding $73 of that $200 to Washington. Make sure they do that. :lol:

Um, no, is it REALLY fair for someone who pays $130 - $300 a year in FUEL COST
TO PAY AN EQUAL AMOUNT FOR TAX?

Who here would support gas prices being doubled by a taxation mechanism?

If you want to tax EV'rs tax as a percentage of their fuel cost, given that most states have about 50% of pre-consumer taxes baked into the electric rates there is already plenty of tax on the fuel.

Rather pathetic we need to try to make an EVs fuel equal in cost to a gasser, defeats the purpose and furthermore is the wrong message to send at this moment especially when there are only 1400 evs in a state like wisconsin, I doubt Georgia is much more progressive at a local level.

Tax the entities that cause most of the road damage, damage is an exponent of weight, easy math to figure where the tax burder belongs, maybe get some big rigs off the road and get more trains going.

Ah well.
 
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