Considering buying a LEAF, need specific range data.

Live in suburban Chicago area.
31 miles each way to work, so 62 mile round trip.
Half is freeway (55-60 mph), half is 35 to 45 mph with traffic lights about every mile. No rush hour driving thank God.
I like to think I drive "smart". Not fast but not slow with an eye towards energy efficiency.

Trying to get them to let me plug in at work but it does not look promising at this time.

Looking for knowledgeable owners and intelligent answers as to whether I can make this work for me.

I think in spring, summer and fall I would be fine. Hope I am at least right about that?

The big question is will the Chicago winters kill my dream of owning this car?

Thanks in advance,
A hopeful owner to be

Buying and not leasing?

You'd better get the SV or SL to get the more efficient hybrid heater w/heat pump. Summers should be no problem. Winters can get dicey and by the time your battery has degraded somewhat, it will get very dicey.

120 volt charging at work for a few hours (or all day) should make it a non-issue, as long as you can reach 100% when charging at home.

My 2013 that now has about 6K miles on it can easily do 80+ miles even with most being highway .... in warm weather.

Now that winter has set in, my wife can just about get 60 miles on it. She does use the heater/defrost but not excessively. We all love the heated seats. Ours is the base "S" model without the better heater so likely that affects things. I can likely push 70 miles but I enjoy the sport trying to "hypermile" as I drive... not particularly good at it mind you, but certainly better than what my wife does...

My guess is that with reasonable care you could make that commute without too much anxiety even in the winter - the first couple years at least. Once battery degrades it could easily become an issue in the winter. However, if you are buying a 2015 I don't think we have enough info on the rate of degradation to predict.. but I'd likely take the early models and assume they are a good worst case scenario.

It makes no sense for you to buy a Leaf with a next generation model with much more range just a few years away, and a commute that will use all of the present car's range. Lease an SV or SL for two years, extend the lease a third year if necessary, and buy or lease a 120 or 150 mile Leaf when it comes out.

+1, except that in IL, you only get the state credit if you buy. But maybe you can keep this one, then get a better range model too, when they finally get here.

I'd say that you would be very nervous a lot in the winter. I make a 50 mile round trip once a week with a 2015 SV, mostly highway. If I have to run the defroster or heater much at all, I don't have much left. If I have to drive into a strong headwind, I'll run pretty close as well. Today I made the trip and had 20% left, but I didn't have to run my heater and it wasn't very windy.

Yes, why push now when rumor is 2016MY will sport a new battery that will easily support your needs... even with a bit of bad weather or degradation after a few years?

But if you must do it for other reasons, you will get a feel for the days where you aren't going to have enough to make the whole round trip, or when you have to run to the store, or have a traffic diversion on the way in, or the temp is really cold, or whatever. Chicago area has loads of charging stations. There must be several along your route. There are even 24 CHAdeMO quick charge locations according to http://plugshare.com. CHAdeMO will probably cost a bit, but could top you up with enough to complete your trip in just 10-20 minutes. They say they can bring you from dead to 80% in 30 minutes! But I believe it is common for those to charge by the "session" rather than by time or by kilowatt. So, you'd be getting the most for your money if you were very low on charge, and only stay 30 minutes. And you would probably only want to use them on your busiest days due to the fairly high cost.

So, if you must, then be sure to get a model that includes or has the package installed for quick charge (which also upgrades the 3.3kW charger to 6.6kW). Then with the more common (and typically less expensive) level 2 charger, you get about 15% in half an hour. So on those exceptional days, you could take some decompress time, pick up 15-30% charge, and get enough to ensure the rest of your trip home is uneventful. Perhaps there is place along the way with Wifi or other features that will help pass this time or give you a place to get in a bit of a walk. Or near the end of your trip in, where you can get a charge, and relax with a cup of coffee.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the tradeoff in speed of going faster but having to stop and charge, and just going slower is often almost one-to-one. So on days that your normal route would require additional charge, you actually may have a choice of using an alternate route at low traffic speeds, or stopping to get some charge. Doesn't always fit, but sometimes when you look at your route differently, you can find an attractive alternative with less stressful traffic, etc. that lets you go slower, and improve your range. Sometimes an alternate route can even shave a mile or two overall as well.

62 is too far IMO without charging at work. Even L1 would be adequate.

Agreed with the other posters, 62 mi might be pushing it, especially with the Chicago winters. On a brand new 2015 I can do my 44 mi commute with about 15% remaining, and that's in the winter parking in an open lot.

With 8 hours of an L1 charge you might be able to make it - then you would only need a 120V outlet while at work. You would probably be at 80% when you head home then.

Ask the dealer for an full day test drive. Most dealerships will do this with EVs now as a way to set expectations on your usage. See if you can do the commute before you buy.

Leasing is definitely a good strategy as well; tech is changing rapidly.

We have 23k miles in our 2013 and also in a Chicago suburb. Battery only degraded by 4% and we can still do a 60 mile highway trip with about 20% left. The challenge will be in the winter below freezing. If you can swap cars, then I say go with the Leaf!

So, if you must, then be sure to get a model that includes or has the package installed for quick charge (which also upgrades the 3.3kW charger to 6.6kW).

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The only Leaf model that still comes with a 3.3KW charger is the S. The SV and SL have 6.6KW chargers as standard equipment, and I seem to remember reading that the S will be getting it as well.

My wife does 55 miles round trip with now charge at work in my 2015 SV when I'm off. She has had 1 day where she had to stop at the charger for 20ish min. It was just below freezing that day. She's since made it many times with similar temperature outside and only just once came in with the battery warning (she thinks she just got one of them not the second). I don't know why she didn't make it since I didn't really pay attention to the weather that day it could have been the wind.

Since you're in Chicago this may be your biggest problem.

She does nothing to help save energy, she is driving in rush hour for part of the way so she can't go too fast. So I say if my wife can do it with no knowledge of what to do to make it better then you can definitely do it if you are willing to learn how. The second thing you have to be willing to do is wait at a public charger, it probably won't happen a lot but be ready for it. I would guess no more than 30 min at a good L2 or 8 min at an L3. I did 90 miles round trip with a 30 min L2 charge in the cold when I forgot to turn off the timer at work one day.

Also you NEED the heat pump.

1212123 said:

Live in suburban Chicago area.
31 miles each way to work, so 62 mile round trip.
Half is freeway (55-60 mph), half is 35 to 45 mph with traffic lights about every mile.
...
Trying to get them to let me plug in at work but it does not look promising at this time.

Looking for knowledgeable owners and intelligent answers as to whether I can make this work for me.

I think in spring, summer and fall I would be fine. Hope I am at least right about that?

The big question is will the Chicago winters kill my dream of owning this car?

Thanks in advance,
A hopeful owner to be

Click to expand...

Will work in moderate weather with no battery capacity loss.
But as a 43 month owner of a 2011 with 23,000 miles and about 18% capacity loss, my broad rule of thumb is the LEAF is a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle, but in cold weather is 30 to 35 mile range if you like heat.

Only the extremely zealous should do what you are considering. If you try it I wish you a lot of luck. You will need it.

If you do it you should get SV or SL with heat pump heater. But that will only make the time that is considered moderate a bit longer.

Not much help below 12 to 15 F.
Absolutely no savings below 4F.

And I agree you should only lease.
What you really need is the Gen 2 with 50% or more range increase.

Duplicate deleted.

+1 on getting the SV for the heating system. For the Cold winters you will need it. I got an S model but I'm in CA and winters aren't too bad here. I'm using the seat heaters and pre-heating the car, only using the heater to defrost at times.

Yes you can do that commute. If you are truly traveling half on freeway and between 35-45 mph, this is the sweet spot for the car. Lots of coasting and regen and you'll probably get to work with about 65% remaining on the battery. I have a slightly shorter commute (52mi round trip about half freeway) I pull up to work with about 73% left and get home with about 45% left. I drive pretty sparingly though. Wife has same commute as you but has L2 chargers at work. I think that you'll be able to make your commute no problem even with 10 bars on the car.

Degradation would probably be my only area of concern. My 2015 has about 5K miles on it now. Started with 292 gids and that slowly rolled off to about 281 after 4K miles. It's been settled at about 281 for the last 1K miles so I'm hopeful that I've experienced the initial 5% "battery settling" that other owners have discussed and I will have low degradation from this point forward. I consistently get about 100 miles of range out of the car with my driving style.

I think the biggest concern with lease over purchase would be the amount that you drive. 60mi/day is about 1,200/mo on average just for your commute. What others may not have noticed is that with that kind of mileage, you're pushing the 15,000/year max lease mileage just with your commute, not including other around town totals. So the lease may be a more expensive option for you if you go over the mileage limit. I was in a similar situation and it looks like I'm on pace to do about 15K/year. If you go over that number you'll be paying roughly $200/1,000 miles over the lease mileage. These things can be negotiated at lease end of course and if you drive off the lot with a new leaf they usually waive it, but lots of things are going to change in the EV market in the next few years. We bought rather than leased, but had a few really good incentives to do so because in CA we have the $2500 rebate, we qualify for the full $7500 federal credit, there dealer was offering an additional $3500 rebate, and the wife had a special deal for an additional $2600 off dealer sticker. So a purchase made sense. Our plan is to sell it in 3 years, with roughly 45K miles on the car, hopefully still 10+ bars on that battery, and we need to get 12K to break even on the sale (driving the leaf for free for 3 years). Lower gas prices may raise that number a bit, but I'm not too concerned. There's also the gamble that the cost for the leaf replacement battery may drop, or better yet, they may have a replacement with more range. If that's in the cards in a few years, maybe we keep it, drive it down to 8 bars or so and then replace the battery with a new one. At the current price of $5500 it's not really a great alternative, but if they were $3K?, it makes a lot of sense.

Crunch your numbers, do your homework, know what you're getting into, and then make your decision.

tkdbrusco said:

Degradation would probably be my only area of concern. My 2015 has about 5K miles on it now. Started with 292 gids and that slowly rolled off to about 281 after 4K miles. It's been settled at about 281 for the last 1K miles so I'm hopeful that I've experienced the initial 5% "battery settling" that other owners have discussed and I will have low degradation from this point forward. I consistently get about 100 miles of range out of the car with my driving style.

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I've got 11000 miles (18000km) in just under 5 months on my 2015 and I still have 291/292 gids.

minispeed said:

tkdbrusco said:

Degradation would probably be my only area of concern. My 2015 has about 5K miles on it now. Started with 292 gids and that slowly rolled off to about 281 after 4K miles. It's been settled at about 281 for the last 1K miles so I'm hopeful that I've experienced the initial 5% "battery settling" that other owners have discussed and I will have low degradation from this point forward. I consistently get about 100 miles of range out of the car with my driving style.

Click to expand...

I've got 11000 miles (18000km) in just under 5 months on my 2015 and I still have 291/292 gids.

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Yeah, I'm a little concerned as to why some peoples are dropping and others are not. Not much I can do about it anyways. Its been stable at or about 281-282 range for about 2K miles now, so I'm hopefully it doesn't drop more. I'm using Leaf Stat on iphone, not sure if that matters? You're in Chicago, I'm in CA and did have it for a few months during the summer, not sure how long it sat on the lot in the heat before I bought it as well? Although Lizards are supposed to be more resilient to heat? Oh well, I'll drive myself crazy analyzing it.

tkdbrusco said:

minispeed said:

tkdbrusco said:

Degradation would probably be my only area of concern. My 2015 has about 5K miles on it now. Started with 292 gids and that slowly rolled off to about 281 after 4K miles. It's been settled at about 281 for the last 1K miles so I'm hopeful that I've experienced the initial 5% "battery settling" that other owners have discussed and I will have low degradation from this point forward. I consistently get about 100 miles of range out of the car with my driving style.

Click to expand...

I've got 11000 miles (18000km) in just under 5 months on my 2015 and I still have 291/292 gids.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a little concerned as to why some peoples are dropping and others are not. Not much I can do about it anyways. Its been stable at or about 281-282 range for about 2K miles now, so I'm hopefully it doesn't drop more. I'm using Leaf Stat on iphone, not sure if that matters? You're in Chicago, I'm in CA and did have it for a few months during the summer, not sure how long it sat on the lot in the heat before I bought it as well? Although Lizards are supposed to be more resilient to heat? Oh well, I'll drive myself crazy analyzing it.

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No I'm in Toronto, Chicago was the OP. Although I bet for the battery Chicago and Toronto would be about the same. I got mine at the end of the summer and we had a really cold August. I also got it almost right off the train/truck so it never sat around and have driven it every day.

No I'm in Toronto, Chicago was the OP. Although I bet for the battery Chicago and Toronto would be about the same. I got mine at the end of the summer and we had a really cold August. I also got it almost right off the train/truck so it never sat around and have driven it every day.[/quote]

Yeah. Mine had a manufacture date of May 2014 and we bought it in late August. It only had 80 miles on it when we bought it, but that doesn't mean that it didn't sit on the lot for 2-3 months beforehand during the summer. I also think we didn't have the best charging habits when we first got it. Since the wife has free L2 charging at work, she was charging to 100% in the morning then plugging in and charging it back to 100% again when she got there, then would go to lunch, only use 5-8% and charge back up. Lots of topping off isn't good for it I hear. We also trickle charged a lot at home for the first 2 months before we got our EVSE installed and I read in the manual that's not good for it either. 5K miles now and 281 gids at 100%, but I hear it reads a bit lower during winter. Still getting 100+ miles out of a full charge.

tkdbrusco said:

Still getting 100+ miles out of a full charge.

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So, you've driven 100+ miles on a single charge w/o any charging in the middle? And, you've done this multiple times?