What's Holding Back Electric Car Sales?

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mwalsh said:
#3 - how about much less for EVs rather than "somewhat less", at least in terms of overall costs.

Also #1 is "somewhat less" or "much less" depending on the state you live in.
 
mwalsh said:
#3 - how about much less for EVs rather than "somewhat less", at least in terms of overall costs.

Maybe they are factoring in battery replacement? Other than tires and windshield washer fluid, I haven't spent any money on maintenance in almost 3 years.
 
And that many simply do not perceive a car with a range of less then 100 miles to be adequate... And we all know that perception IS reality... My next door neighbor just bought a Lincoln hybrid. He said he would consider an EV when it had a 200 mile range...

DaveinOlyWA said:
two things;
inability to recognize true cost/benefit of operation/driving EVs
Big Oil perpetuating myths concerning EV Myths
 
I can vouch for a lack of knowledge about incentives. I had no idea the GA $5000 tax credit existed until some folks on Jalopnik mentioned it the comments to an article about the best new car deals available.

A further reason is lack of infrastructure, which the WSJ article failed to mention. Most people are not willing to go to one of the few charging locations and wait around so they can go home after work. Until charging stations (or at least outlets) are available for EVs at *most* workplaces, or there are at least a few HVDC chargers on everyone's commute, range is going to be the big limiter. I'm sure it's fine in the big cities but in smaller cities it's a different game. For example, I work on the east side of Columbus, GA. Outside of Atlanta, there aren't many well-connected cities. I have to drive 15-20 minutes to reach any of the chargers in this city, if they're working, and none of them are DC quick chargers. Unfortunately, besides making an uber-battery, this is the most difficult issue to address simply due to costs.

Frankly, I think we should get rid of L2 charging stations all together and replace them with outlets controlled by a MCU affixed to a card reader. Have all EVs come with a L2 portable charger, like EVSEUpgraded cables. The point is to reduce the costs of making electricity available to property owners. There isn't much incentive for a company to spend a few thousand bucks installing a station when it's going to earn them a couple dozen cents per hour (only when in use). They have to get some ROI. For them to actually make any money, as is, they'd have to charge like Blink in which case might as well buy gas. Good will and marketing are great bonuses but they need something written in black ink to really seduce them into opening their power to the public.

I don't see any way to make DC chargers less expensive, which is a shame. A quick DC charging station every few miles would certainly help folks get over their anxiety regarding electric vehicles.
 
smkettner said:
Range is the reason. Need 150+ EPA miles. The rest is just noise.

Not so much "range" as "range anxiety." A 150 mile EV would just have people worrying about that 200 mile hypothetical trip they might make. Hybrids and PHEVs are doing well because once people understand that they won't stop dead and strand them (as long as they have gas in them) they like the idea. Given that it takes a lot of effort just to get most people to understand how a PHEV works, getting them to make lifestyle changes for an EV seems pretty daunting...

Maybe we need a new ad campaign, for the Leaf and most other EVs: "The Perfect Second Car"
 
LeftieBiker said:
smkettner said:
Range is the reason. Need 150+ EPA miles. The rest is just noise.

Not so much "range" as "range anxiety." A 150 mile EV would just have people worrying about that 200 mile hypothetical trip they might make. Hybrids and PHEVs are doing well because once people understand that they won't stop dead and strand them (as long as they have gas in them) they like the idea. Given that it takes a lot of effort just to get most people to understand how a PHEV works, getting them to make lifestyle changes for an EV seems pretty daunting...

Maybe we need a new ad campaign, for the Leaf and most other EVs: "The Perfect Second Car"

Problem is that "normal users" want decent range + good charger network (for longer trips). So far nobody offers that around 40K pricepoint.
 
At some point, probably after 2016, when EVs become both cheaper and a bit less partisan, both price (TCO) and generic patriotism should and hopefully will be used to propel industry-wide sales of EVs to new heights. Hopefully growing environmental concerns across the general populace (and political spectrum) will provide a valuable third-place "global" reason to the above two (more "myopic") motivations.

Right now, enough people are just not aware of the prices (plural) that continued dependence and use of petroleum cost, both personally, nationally, and globally. With sales doubling every year though, there's little doubt that we are just a few years into perhaps a two-decade complete transition to electric passenger vehicles. And then (ideally), trucks, boats and planes will follow suit!

In short, I'd say that habit and "obliviousness" are what's holding back sales, and those will both change as more and more of us are out there driving. And talking. ;-)
 
What an absolute load of hunkum. Both the 'survey', and some of the responses here.

I do not believe for a moment that EVs have proved to be more reliable and less costly in routine maintenance than ICE.

Show me the figures. I'd like to see Nissan's per-vehicle cost of warranty claims for Leaf cars against Nissan's closest equivalent car. If it is higher for the ICE, I'll eat my chocolate hat.

So people misjudge the relative costs of ICE and EVs 60% of the time? I'd like to see the blind-study that would, I am sure, also show that they misjudge the cost of and ICE 60% of the time too.

(You might also want to add into the mix Ghosn's revelation that Leaf is not yet a profitable car to sell - i.e. they are losing money every time they sell you one of these things.)

--Perception - EVs have questionable reliability credentials.
--Fact - EV's have questionable reliability credentials.

--Perception - EV's have limited range.
--Fact - EV's have limited range.

--Perception: EV's cost more.
--Fact: EV's can cost less but might well cost you more if you do not have an optimised usage pattern for it (or goes wrong out of warranty).

I find the whole debate about why people are so stupid that they don't realise the benefits of EV's over their current buying motivations to be grounded in a basic disrespect for the intelligence of car buyers.

I've gone back to driving my diesel car. The reason? My EV broke down. Left me stranded for 3 weeks. I have NEVER had a car that has caused me such an inconvenience before, in 30 years of motoring.

Would I have another EV? Sure. But it would not be by looking through rose-tinted goggles.

Would I buy another EV? Definitely not at the moment. The technology needs to settle down, both in understanding the confidence you can put into the reliability of the current technologies and the optimum formats - size, range, performance, charging protocols, etc..

Anyone who buys an EV at the moment rather than taking a lease looks to me like they are doing so on the basis of an act of faith. It is not a decision I can see how it could be arrived at by rational means.

Why have I not yet leased another EV? Well, I have contacted three different VW dealers so far about their cars to ask for test drives (they use NMC batteries, which I have far more confidence in than LMO) but none have yet bothered to follow up.

People aren't buying EVs because they have good reasons not to want to bother at the moment. I got my EV because I saw an opportunity to try one out at a good price. I'm not an early adopter like most of you, nor am I persuaded by the evangelical discussions you see in the press.

Early adopters put up with cr8p, and being treated like cr8p by their suppliers, because they want that early technology and have rationalised why it is such a Good Thing.

Until the technology is stable, the reliability is understood, and the dealers actually want to sell these things, you will not see mainstream uptake. Fix these three things, and it will be a different outlook.
 
donald said:
Early adopters

Might as well use standard terminology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The usual progression (Roger's Bell Curve) is:
Innovators (2.5%)
Early Adopters (13.5%)
Early Majority (34%)
Late Majority (34%)
Laggards (16%)

Most of the buyers of electrics to date can be characterized as Innovators. You being an exception, of course.

donald said:
Until the technology is stable, the reliability is understood, and the dealers actually want to sell these things, you will not see mainstream uptake. Fix these three things, and it will be a different outlook.

By mainstream, you mean... what on Roger's Bell Curve? The technology is never stable, the reliability is good, at least in the climate in Seattle, and local dealers are sells lots of Leafs. You mean, perhaps, that the electrics will look good to you? I agree that will be decades in the future, if ever.
 
TomT said:
I believe that we are now moving in to the Early Adopter phase...

WetEV said:
Most of the buyers of electrics to date can be characterized as Innovators. You being an exception, of course.

I agree. When i first started driving my leaf i used to wave to other leaf drivers. Until enough of them didn't wave back or wave at me first. Most leaf drivers use the car for cheap transportation . Not passionate about it at all. Passion about something is what it takes to be called an innovator. Motorcyclists wave to each other all the time. Except harley riders. They are sheep.
 
mbender said:
At some point, probably after 2016, when EVs become both cheaper and a bit less partisan, both price (TCO) and generic patriotism should and hopefully will be used to propel industry-wide sales of EVs to new heights. Hopefully growing environmental concerns across the general populace (and political spectrum) will provide a valuable third-place "global" reason to the above two (more "myopic") motivations.

Right now, enough people are just not aware of the prices (plural) that continued dependence and use of petroleum cost, both personally, nationally, and globally. With sales doubling every year though, there's little doubt that we are just a few years into perhaps a two-decade complete transition to electric passenger vehicles. And then (ideally), trucks, boats and planes will follow suit!

In short, I'd say that habit and "obliviousness" are what's holding back sales, and those will both change as more and more of us are out there driving. And talking. ;-)


I know what they say... never say never. But there will never be a battery powered airplane. At least a airliner type. Typically on a long range flight, half of the takeoff weight of the aircraft is fuel. I rode up front once on a 3 hour flight on a MD-80 way back in the day. It burned half of it's fuel load in the first 30 minutes of flight during its takeoff and climb to cruise altitude. The only thing that has that kind of energy density is petroleum. Except for perhaps a nuclear reactor. Look at a typical auto. 3000 pounds... a full tank of gas weighs 100 pounds. take a 747-8. max takeoff weight 975,000 pounds. Full tank 425,000 pounds. (rarely gets completely filled though). You just can't possibly hold that kind of energy in a battery.
 
All that would do is just get it off the ground and up to minimum airspeed. It still has to climb and accelerate under its own power... And I'm sure that the typical passenger would love the G load! :lol:

By the way, the new aircraft carriers are going to electromagnetic launchers and retiring steam...

LeftieBiker said:
Never say never. Think of a ground-launch system for battery planes that is similar to the steam-powered ones on aircraft carriers.
 
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