LEAF Advisory Board, the sequel...

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evchels

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
329
We have a new LAB group!

I know that a few have had questions about whether the group was continuing in light of recent changes within Nissan (we had them too for a minute, but were quickly reassured.) I'd also asked the last group to stay on and provide feedback through the Battery Replacement Program development, and am grateful they did. The new group is now in place and eager to continue delivering feedback to Nissan on behalf of the broader community:

US:
Matt Garrison- Madison, WI
Marcy McKibbin- Atlanta, GA
David Rees- Encinitas, CA
Brian Henderson, Bellevue, WA

Canada:
Martin Archambault- Ste-Julie, Quebec

UK:
Jeffery Lay- Milton Keynes, England (returning)
Paul Mullett- Milton Keynes, England

France:
Mark Nitters- Le Rouret (returning)

Norway:
Snorre Sletvold- Tromso

Japan:
Yoichi Sugimoto- Chiba
Hirofumi Yamazaki- Yokohama

As before, the group will be limited in the information it can share here. But we remain happy to hear and convey any feedback you'd like to share with us.

(For background, the old thread about the LAB is here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10267 .)
 
Great news! Thanks for your participation and input to this group. Anything I can do to help, feel free to contact me. I think the LAB performs a valuable function and is much appreciated. I love my LEAF, yet am in the group who will lose their fourth bar shortly after the 60 month battery warranty expires. I expect to purchase a newer generation battery if it's available for the 2011 model year LEAF.
 
Thanks, Chelsea, and thanks to the new advisory board!
SilverLeaf said:
I love my LEAF, yet am in the group who will lose their fourth bar shortly after the 60 month battery warranty expires.
Really? You are in Scottsdale, AZ, and you expect the battery capacity warranty to expire based on time (not miles)?
 
Thank you to all LAB members for listening.

I can't speak for everyone, but many of us want Nissan to be successful with the Leaf and are willing to help other buyers and even help Nissan where we can.

I hope you can also send a message to Nissan that Leaf owners really appreciate technical information and are frustrated that we have to learn things ourselves that Nissan should be willing to tell us. It would be very refreshing if Nissan could step up the technical information flow to owners.

I understand that Nissan is concerned about lawsuits and also concerned about helping their competition. We shouldn't expect Nissan to tell us every trade secret or admit mistakes. But reading this forum should give you a sense that Leaf owners go to great lengths to learn about the vehicle themselves.

You have to assume that Nissan's competitors are doing even more. They are probably buying Leafs from dealers around the country and around the world using secret buyers, and methodically ripping them apart in very specialized shops to learn as much as they can. In my business, that's what we do with our competitors, and your competitors have much more money than we do. There isn't much that will remain secret to them, so why keep secrets from your most loyal customers?

Respectfully,
Bob
 
evchels said:
As before, the group will be limited in the information it can share here. But we remain happy to hear and convey any feedback you'd like to share with us.
The Nissan quick charge network really needs some attention. Last spring Nissan donated 2 quick charge stations to Salt Lake City. They worked great for about 2 or 3 weeks time, by the end of June they would not work at all and they have been broken all summer long.

ABB and Nissan are both well aware of these machines not working and still nothing has been done to fix these charge stations. Is there anyone at Nissan who gives a ****?
 
What can we learn about the 'recent changes' that you alluded in the first post ?

What is the future of battery production and Leaf in general ?
 
Thanks for your continued support! :) And for the help many of you have provided here and elsewhere with raising issues, member recommendations, etc.

KJD said:
How many of the LAB members drive a LEAF?
All except for Brian, who--like Darell last year--is a broadly active EV enthusiast who also brings the perspective of someone who hasn't yet been won over by LEAF/Nissan.

I'll leave it mostly to the members to share their own personal details (or not), but there is a mix of newer LEAF drivers and veterans, at least one two-LEAF household, age range of 20-something to 50-something, and a variety of families and lifestyles. Not surprisingly, professions err toward the tech side, but there are a few others in there too.

All are also well-connected within many LEAF (and other EV) groups around the world. Seven run/moderate LEAF forums and/or clubs in the US, Canada, France, UK, Norway and Japan. Most are also active on Facebook, Twitter, etc. As with the last group, the goal was to create a LAB that itself is diverse, but is also well-equipped to hear and elevate the questions and concerns of the broader community.

SilverLeaf said:
I love my LEAF, yet am in the group who will lose their fourth bar shortly after the 60 month battery warranty expires. I expect to purchase a newer generation battery if it's available for the 2011 model year LEAF.
The most current (2015) battery will definitely be available to 2011 LEAFs; this was confirmed in the original BRP announcement. We have and will continue to ask for similar "retrofittability" for future batteries (and any larger pack sizes), and plenty of advance warning should that become not feasible at some point in the future. To date, we have only ever been told by Nissan that they will aim for this wherever possible.

We also recognize that there are some who will "just miss" the capacity warranty, and will inquire about possible compromises.

KJD said:
The Nissan quick charge network really needs some attention...
Already within the new LAB group, this is a resounding theme-- both reliability and growing/improving the network itself--and not just in the US. It was raised in the last group but has understandably grown since, as more chargers have been deployed and have had issues, or haven't been deployed at all in some areas. We will definitely be trying to get more attention focused here. Re issues, any background info about specific manufacturers (ABB in SLC noted!), geographies, etc., or thread pointers sent via PM are appreciated!
 
evcehls said:
KJD said:
The Nissan quick charge network really needs some attention...
Already within the new LAB group, this is a resounding theme-- both reliability and growing/improving the network itself--and not just in the US. It was raised in the last group but has understandably grown since, as more chargers have been deployed and have had issues, or haven't been deployed at all in some areas. We will definitely be trying to get more attention focused here. Re issues, any background info about specific manufacturers (ABB in SLC noted!), geographies, etc., or thread pointers sent via PM are appreciated!
I agree that this should be a high priority, and thank you for making it one. A well-functioning and well-thought-out QC network doubles the value of a LEAF for me, and I imagine many others.

One important note to keep in mind during the process though, is that, aside from:

  • improved reliability (why not 99.9+% up-time?),
  • quicker turn-around time when they do fail (i.e., days not weeks or months),
  • better/easier (ideally 24/7, unimpeded) access, and
  • more (strategic) locations

more units per location should not be overlooked! At least two usable plugs per location would make sense, and even ameliorate any reliability issues that might linger.

And then also, a couple years down the road, some way to "permanently" unify the various networks -- as EZ-Charge currently does to some extent -- will become nearly mandatory. A subscription for one card that works with all networks would be 1/2 to 1/4 as expensive (and a lot less hassle) than joining all that service any particular area.

I think we all recognize what a challenge this is turning out to be, so good luck to all in coming up with novel solutions!
 
Agreed, mbender. These points are applicable to all charging, Nissan or otherwise. I'm realistic about how much the LAB can affect the bigger picture of charging, but we'll push on it.

Separately, I've long been mulling the best way to gather and measure a charger site "wishlist", so that any charger provider--and any potential host site-- could see which locations the drivers want most. (It's a bit of a throwback to EV1 days; since GM paid for much of the original public charging anyway, we were able to make sure at least some of them were ones drivers deemed most useful.) Not all of the proposed sites would be feasible, but it could be a valuable resource for a variety of constituents, including public agencies allocating funding. A bit off-topic, but if someone wants a side project... :)
 
mkjayakumar said:
What can we learn about the 'recent changes' that you alluded in the first post ?
It was fairly well known here that Andy Palmer established the LAB, and Billy Hayes was also very supportive. Therefore, their departures from Nissan caused some to wonder whether the group would continue- which was quickly answered, and here we are.

Similarly, I've only ever received assurances that Nissan's commitment to EVs in general is unchanged. But this also strikes me as something we'll see over time, as we meet the new folks coming into those roles, see what happens next with LEAF, NV, and future programs.

mkjayakumar said:
What is the future of battery production and Leaf in general ?
I have had no discussion with Nissan on the battery story- though again, have gotten no inkling of them pulling back, esp on LEAF. So no reason to doubt their rebuttal to that story at this point.

But personally, I'm also less concerned with where any automaker gets its batteries (as long as they're good!), and more with the scale of and commitment to the car programs that use them. So I'm not ignoring the battery story, I'm just not reading into it until we know more.
 
This thread has been pretty quiet lately.

In another month my LEAF will be 3 years old. One of the reasons that I bought the SL was that they all have the QC port. Sad to say that after 3 years of waiting there is still not a reliable QC station anywhere in the state of Utah. We have a few ABB QC stations and they are almost always offline. This has been a problem for 6 months now.

Why the hell does Nissan buy hardware that DOES NOT WORK?
 
Since this thread has been resurrected and the Advisory Board still has an important role, I'll share my $0.02.

As far as DC fast charging is concerned, I think Tesla is the only manufacturer demonstrating a compelling vision. Their network of Superchargers is available 24/7 in mostly good locations, is redundant with multiple chargers per site, and is generally quite reliable and well maintained. If Nissan were to set up and maintain similar 24/7 banks of CHAdeMO chargers along key regional corridors accessible to LEAF drivers, that could be a major step forward.

Alternatively, Nissan could adopt the Tesla connector, charge up front (at the time of purchase/lease) for Supercharger access, and join forces with Tesla in building out the Supercharger network. That would be even better for consumers, I think.

What I'd like in my next EV is (1) much more range, (2) Supercharger network or equivalent, (3) AWD, and (4) more space. If Nissan chooses to address that market, they'll have a shot at my business, even without frills like Autopilot, 3.2s 0-60, 21" wheels, etc.

In the meantime, if Nissan gives me the opportunity to upgrade my 2011 LEAF to a longer range battery, I'll likely postpone the purchase of a Tesla or equivalent EV. Keeping the same car for a number of years is more my style. Then, by the time I'm ready for a different car, maybe there will be a Nissan that satisfies the above desires.
 
I would strongly encourage Nissan to try to put "real" instrument readouts on the dash rather than the current comically obfuscated and distorted ones.

1) Capacity bars that show up as equal'ish in size, but vary from 15% for the first one, and 6% for the second one is disingenuous. Readout in linear steps, or better yet readout in kWh available or % of capacity left.
2) Temperature readout for the battery has such coarse steps that a fair number of people question if it is stuck. Readout in degress F or C, or put in a dial indicator.
3) Drop the trees, they are stupid and make little sense.
4) Make the PSI of the tires available somewhere. Why have a sensors that only let you know once things are REALLY bad?
5) Please add a speed readout in a dial form (real or rendered, I don't care). Many folks hate digital readouts for some very valid reasons.
6) Display kWh remaining rather than SOC.
7) Nuke the GOM. The current equations work to maximize range anxiety rather than indicating anything useful. Put in a very simple fixed EPA efficiency in mi/kwH times the remaining charge in kWh down to VLBW. Voila, a useful readout that does not cause heart attacks going up hills, or bad decisions after going down hills.


Also, consider putting in a phase change material heat storage system as part of the cold weather package. Currently we can pre-heat the fluid, but that only holds so much. A chamber full of paraffin capsules (or similar) would allow the pre-heat cycle to easily hold 2-3 times the heat to better take the edge off of winter capacity loss.
 
Moof said:
I would strongly encourage Nissan to try to put "real" instrument readouts on the dash rather than the current comically obfuscated and distorted ones.

1) Capacity bars that show up as equal'ish in size, but vary from 15% for the first one, and 6% for the second one is disingenuous. Readout in linear steps, or better yet readout in kWh available or % of capacity left.
2) Temperature readout for the battery has such coarse steps that a fair number of people question if it is stuck. Readout in degress F or C, or put in a dial indicator.
3) Drop the trees, they are stupid and make little sense.
4) Make the PSI of the tires available somewhere. Why have a sensors that only let you know once things are REALLY bad?
5) Please add a speed readout in a dial form (real or rendered, I don't care). Many folks hate digital readouts for some very valid reasons.
6) Display kWh remaining rather than SOC.
7) Nuke the GOM. The current equations work to maximize range anxiety rather than indicating anything useful. Put in a very simple fixed EPA efficiency in mi/kwH times the remaining charge in kWh down to VLBW. Voila, a useful readout that does not cause heart attacks going up hills, or bad decisions after going down hills.


Also, consider putting in a phase change material heat storage system as part of the cold weather package. Currently we can pre-heat the fluid, but that only holds so much. A chamber full of paraffin capsules (or similar) would allow the pre-heat cycle to easily hold 2-3 times the heat to better take the edge off of winter capacity loss.


Excellent suggestions. I concur these would all be good steps forward for the leaf.
 
I wish Nissan would take the "early fleet" seriously. There are no true updates or enhancements for any cars. I love to see things like adding tire pressures to the center display, an updated climate module to add a heat button for the '11s and '12s, a Nismo VCM for all model years, etc. This is one area where Tesla is absolutely excelling, and I don't think it would cost much for Nissan to step up here.

It seems Nissan considers these cars disposable; that you should just lease and get the latest and greatest. I don't think this should be continuing if Nissan wants to be like Toyota in 10 years with the Prius. Imagine how the commercial with "original leaf owners" would go with those who had their cars "voluntarily bought back" by Nissan. :lol:

And before you say, "oh well we have a pack price now" I don't think that's enough. Be better than this minimalist effort you have done so far.
 
In addition to the other excellent suggestions cited above, I plan to return my top year lease I Feb 2015 and lease another Leaf S for a three year period. This is because I am waiting for improved battery capacity before purchase.

But nearly as importantly, I've decided on the S trim level because I cannot stand the severely outdated navigation system that operates using 2G wireless data!! There is no reason to upgrade to higher trim levels without the nav system being up to date; I'd rather just plug in a cheap Garmin or Tom-Tom and get to where I want go. Since to me that is a deal-breaker, please let Nissan know there is profit being lost!
 
Nubo said:
What's next for the board? Is Nissan seeking your input for LEAF 2?
Currently our assigned task is to collect feedback on current issues from the LEAF community.

The feedback is good - keep it coming!
 
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