Are 2013 and 2014 Leafs beta testers for the Lizard battery?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

stjohnh

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
363
Location
Palo Alto, CA
This is my theory, see if the following fits:

2010: Nissan engineers are convinced they have a good battery, Management makes it and markets it in MY 2011 and 2012. By the end of 2011, they realized the battery had a severe Achilles heel. Researchers start frantically developing a better battery during 2012. By the end of 2012 they are convinced they have a better battery. BUT marketing and management say, "no way are we going through that boondoggle again, we are not announcing a better battery until we have real world data so that we don't look like fools again." So they announce a "minor electrolyte tweak" for the 2013 Leaf, but it is actually what they think will be the Lizard battery. If it doesn't work out, no big public relations problem. If it does work, they announce the New Lizard Battery for the 2015 MY.

So they install the (as yet unnamed) Lizard battery in all 2013 and 2014 Leafs, use a variety of programming tweaks to see if changes in the BMS can give an extra couple of miles of range (accounting for the observation of many MY2013 owners that Gids, AHR capacity, etc are all over the map), sit back and collect data via carwings for all of 2013 and by the time a year has gone by, it is clear that the new 2013 battery is MUCH better than the earlier batteries. They smile, give a big sigh of relief, and announce the Lizard battery for 2015 (the MY 2014 has already been out a few mo, so they can't announce it for that).

Any of this seem unlikely either from the information that is known, or for the likely behavior of a big car company?
 
stjohnh said:
This is my theory, see if the following fits:

2010: Nissan engineers are convinced they have a good battery, Management makes it and markets it in MY 2011 and 2012. By the end of 2011, they realized the battery had a severe Achilles heel. Researchers start frantically developing a better battery during 2012. By the end of 2012 they are convinced they have a better battery. BUT marketing and management say, "no way are we going through that boondoggle again, we are not announcing a better battery until we have real world data so that we don't look like fools again." So they announce a "minor electrolyte tweak" for the 2013 Leaf, but it is actually what they think will be the Lizard battery. If it doesn't work out, no big public relations problem. If it does work, they announce the New Lizard Battery for the 2015 MY.

I have wondered this myself. Only time will tell at this point.
 
I think your theory is very possible, except that my guess is that the Lizard battery was installed in selected 2013/2014 Leafs and only in very hot areas of the country. When enough data came in, they decided to make it standard for the 2015 Leafs. Some of the earlier Leafs may have it, a lot probably don't.
 
I'm sure they continued to tweak the electrolyte after 2012 change, into 2013 and 2014. Time will tell how much the 2015 lizard battery is better than 2013 or 2014 battery. Hopefully we will hear from the phoenix people after this summer if battery degradation is less severe. Perhaps have to wait till next summer to have a full summer's worth of data available.
Some references:
http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generation-battery-is-coming-online-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
There seems to be some anecdotal evidence to support your theory. Of course, only time (and some good data) will tell, but I'm convinced there's been a significant improvement in the battery chemistry w.r.t heat and am looking forward to my (warranty) battery replacement sometime next year.
 
I'm at 93% health after a year on my 2013, which is exactly in line with the aging model. Though, I'm not in a hot climate, and no one ever said the lizard battery would be any better for folks like me.
 
MY 2013 SV is charging to 79% instead of 80%, which is thought to be a precursor to losing a bar. Last Summer was very hot here, and I think the damage was done then. Now I do my best to keep the pack from getting hot.
 
dgpcolorado said:
How's LEAFfan doing?
I'm pretty sure LEAFfan's 2013 lost its first bar faster than the 2011, but that it stabilized somewhat after that.

I do not think the 2013s contained the "Lizard" battery, but I do think they were tweaked somewhat from the 2011/2012s.
 
Stoaty said:
I think your theory is very possible, except that my guess is that the Lizard battery was installed in selected 2013/2014 Leafs and only in very hot areas of the country. When enough data came in, they decided to make it standard for the 2015 Leafs. Some of the earlier Leafs may have it, a lot probably don't.

I would rate electrolyte purity as a minor tweak and that minor electrolyte tweaks have been occurred on an ongoing basis

I also suspect that high purity, major electrolyte tweaks takes time to ramp up production, so that there was a 2 year period where both prior and future electrolyte was used as supply improved. I don't think that Nissan would wake up one morning, head off to caltex and just started using standard grade chemical for some of these additives, (others - yes they might) it would take time to build and commission the supply of the purity required.
 
pkulak said:
I'm at 93% health after a year on my 2013, which is exactly in line with the aging model. Though, I'm not in a hot climate, and no one ever said the lizard battery would be any better for folks like me.

I have almost one year and 13K with one summer in Maryland and am currently still at 101% health.
 
stjohnh said:
This is my theory, see if the following fits:

2010: Nissan engineers are convinced they have a good battery, Management makes it and markets it in MY 2011 and 2012. By the end of 2011, they realized the battery had a severe Achilles heel. Researchers start frantically developing a better battery during 2012. By the end of 2012 they are convinced they have a better battery. BUT marketing and management say, "no way are we going through that boondoggle again, we are not announcing a better battery until we have real world data so that we don't look like fools again." So they announce a "minor electrolyte tweak" for the 2013 Leaf, but it is actually what they think will be the Lizard battery. If it doesn't work out, no big public relations problem. If it does work, they announce the New Lizard Battery for the 2015 MY.

So they install the (as yet unnamed) Lizard battery in all 2013 and 2014 Leafs, use a variety of programming tweaks to see if changes in the BMS can give an extra couple of miles of range (accounting for the observation of many MY2013 owners that Gids, AHR capacity, etc are all over the map), sit back and collect data via carwings for all of 2013 and by the time a year has gone by, it is clear that the new 2013 battery is MUCH better than the earlier batteries. They smile, give a big sigh of relief, and announce the Lizard battery for 2015 (the MY 2014 has already been out a few mo, so they can't announce it for that).

Any of this seem unlikely either from the information that is known, or for the likely behavior of a big car company?

my view is that Nissan Engineers thought they had a great battery setup but it was nixed by marketing due to a slight extra cost and another 6 months delay to bring it up to production ready status. It was then decided to use the pack from the last prototype instead
 
RegGuheert said:
dgpcolorado said:
How's LEAFfan doing?
I'm pretty sure LEAFfan's 2013 lost its first bar faster than the 2011, but that it stabilized somewhat after that.

I do not think the 2013s contained the "Lizard" battery, but I do think they were tweaked somewhat from the 2011/2012s.

I agree and LEAF fan also got one of the first 2013's making it even less likely he got something "advanced"
 
Back
Top