Leaf as a portable 110v generator?

If the Leaf can energize the CHAdeMO DC port for outgoing current, it would be great to have a small DC-to-AC inverter that plugs into the port to provide 110v power.

This would take the place of a portable generator for tailgating, car camping, picnic jumpies, a fridge, or R/C toy chargers. Totally silent, and emission-free.

Compared to the consumer 12v power inverters, it could be much more powerful and longer-lived. 24kWh goes a long way if you're just drawing a 200W or so.

Aside from the high voltage considerations and negotiating protocol with TEPCO, the DC-to-AC parts are mature and readily available. The most expensive part would likely be the TEPCO connector itself.

I suppose a crude solution would be to run a standard 12v-to-AC inverter off the lead-acid cell, and leave the car On to keep the battery topped up from the DC-to-DC conversion. Probably more loss overall, but less work.

Read something in LEAF Warranty about NOT using the battery as a power source.

It makes more sense to use the pack voltage to an AC inverter not 12V up. My truck has a factory 120V AC outlet in the bed that is 400W, they should have offered this as an option in the rear of the Leaf as it is inexpensive and some could use it.

GroundLoop said:

I suppose a crude solution would be to run a standard 12v-to-AC inverter off the lead-acid cell, and leave the car On to keep the battery topped up from the DC-to-DC conversion. Probably more loss overall, but less work.

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Certainly more loss overall, but for a low wattage, who cares. Rather than calling it "crude" I'd say it is an elegant solution. Surely most of us already have 12v DC to 120v AC inverters, so the equipment cost is zero. And you can't beat it for familiarity or lack of high voltage exposure.

Now, if you plan to lug your microwave along on a camp-out, that's another matter. I think most of the little cigarette-lighter inverters top out at 100 watts or so.

planet4ever said:

GroundLoop said:

I suppose a crude solution would be to run a standard 12v-to-AC inverter off the lead-acid cell, and leave the car On to keep the battery topped up from the DC-to-DC conversion. Probably more loss overall, but less work.

Click to expand...

Certainly more loss overall, but for a low wattage, who cares. Rather than calling it "crude" I'd say it is an elegant solution. Surely most of us already have 12v DC to 120v AC inverters, so the equipment cost is zero. And you can't beat it for familiarity or lack of high voltage exposure.

Now, if you plan to lug your microwave along on a camp-out, that's another matter. I think most of the little cigarette-lighter inverters top out at 100 watts or so.

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I have one of those little 12VDC - 120VAC inverters and the LEAF has a 12VDC accessory outlet which it would plug into nicely! And I bet Nissan wouldn't complain about using it; they put the accessory outlet there for such "accessories", so long as they don't draw so much current they blow the fuse.

Could be a 5, 10, 15, or 20 amp fuse (presumably with wiring to match).

Does anybody know this fuse's rating?

garygid said:

Read something in LEAF Warranty about NOT using the battery as a power source.

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Warranties are overrated!

http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

DarkStar said:

garygid said:

Read something in LEAF Warranty about NOT using the battery as a power source.

Click to expand...

Warranties are overrated!

http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Using an auto's large format traction packs is not new. It's becoming more and more common to use old phone backup equipment / 240 DC to AC converters. Here's a shot from the web site specializing in using the Prius pack:

http://www.priups.com/others/chris/index.html

Here's the stuff we bought ... prior to set up ... over 600lbs:



The nice thing about tapping into the prius pack is that when the pack gets low (presuming you're smart enough to turn the ignition on) the ICE kicks on and maintains the charge level. The Prius pack is tapped into to feed into the backup equipment, and prevents the phone company backup batteries from going low, and then it gets converted from 240 DC to AC.

I seems like Nissan either has not read or has chosen to ignore this Act.

Perhaps they feel that it does not apply to them?

hill said:

Using an auto's large format traction packs is not new. It's becoming more and more common to use old phone backup equipment / 240 DC to AC converters. Here's a shot from the web site specializing in using the Prius pack:
http://www.priups.com/others/chris/index.html
Here's the stuff we bought ... prior to set up ... over 600lbs:

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Wow! That's hardcore.
I love it. Something like that in the corner of the garage is as good as a backup generator. If the power goes out, a 24kWh Leaf could power my house for two days!

With the right CHAdeMO connector and logic, you wouldn't have to modify the car at all.

And I'd like to see the quote from the Warranty that says I can't do it. I didn't see anything like that.

garygid said:

I seems like Nissan either has not read or has chosen to ignore this Act.

Perhaps they feel that it does not apply to them?

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Auto MFGs like to pretend it is not there because the average consumer is not aware it exists.

GroundLoop said:

I love it. Something like that in the corner of the garage is as good as a backup generator. If the power goes out, a 24kWh Leaf could power my house for two days! With the right CHAdeMO connector and logic, you wouldn't have to modify the car at all. And I'd like to see the quote from the Warranty that says I can't do it. I didn't see anything like that.

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WHAT IS NOT COVERED
GENERAL EXCLUSIONS
This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion resulting from or caused by:

• Failure to operate the vehicle in accordance with the OWNER’S MANUAL.
• Misuse, such as overloading, using the vehicle to tow, driving over curbs, or using the vehicle as a power source.

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Oh, that.

Hmm.. :|

Nice find! Too funny, he's saying exactly what we're saying...

It would be fairly simple to run a 1000 Watt inverter from the 12V battery. It looks like the negative cable can be bolted onto the ground lug on the chassis (follow the cable from the battery) and, with some modification or removal of the positive terminal cover, the positive feed could easily be added/bolted. Might even be able to attach a quick disconnect/socket to the framing member where the overflow reservoir is attached. I'd recommend for anyone using an inverter to get a pure sine wave one.

That battery is a bit small for 1000w IMO. Even if the main battery is charging the little thing I would keep it to 100w max.

smkettner said:

That battery is a bit small for 1000w IMO. Even if the main battery is charging the little thing I would keep it to 100w max.

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Maybe. People were doing it with the Prius which appeared to have a similar size battery. But then again, I'd be hard pressed to consume 1000 Watts steady state--our non LEAF electric consumption is about 500 Watts steady state much of the year.

gascant said:

It would be fairly simple to run a 1000 Watt inverter from the 12V battery. It looks like the negative cable can be bolted onto the ground lug on the chassis (follow the cable from the battery) and, with some modification or removal of the positive terminal cover, the positive feed could easily be added/bolted. Might even be able to attach a quick disconnect/socket to the framing member where the overflow reservoir is attached. I'd recommend for anyone using an inverter to get a pure sine wave one.

Click to expand...

A few weeks ago my home lost electric power for 13hrs as part of a large regional outage from an unusual wind storm. Many folks were without power much longer; some a few days.

At the Chief Vehicle Engineer meeting at Google last month, Nissan confirmed that they are coming out in a few months with a black-out inverter powered by the Leaf, but I imagine this solution will be somewhat pricey.

I am considering provisioning a modest inverter to be connected as described above to keep my refrigerator powered up during an extended outage, with some spare power for a small TV or an efficient computer. Kill-a-watt says my refrigerator uses about 150 watts during a normal on cycle, and about 1.1 kWh over a 24 hr period. However, the fridge draws more, about 500+ watts, when it is in the occasional de-frost cycle.

I agree a pure sine wave inverter is best. I have seen some 600 watt sine wave inverters, which could be a good size for this mission if I can coax the fridge into avoiding de-frost cycles. I could leave the Leaf powered-on in my locked garage so it could keep the 12V battery charged from the main pack. If I avoid other loads, I could keep the refrigerator going at least 2 weeks. Unless we have the "big one" earthquake, I would not expect an outage to last anywhere near that long. I would be happy to keep the average power under 300W. Does anyone know at what rate the Leaf can re-charge the 12V battery ?