Frustrated- pre heat 2013 S (not SV or SL)

I have spent the last week trying to figure out the pre-heat options for my 2013 S. Please note: the S has an entirely different climate control system than 2011, 2012, and 2013 SV/SL Leafs.

My usual, which works, is set charge timer to 7AM, Climate timer to 6:50AM. This will charge car and shut off the pre-heat at 6:50 (the manual is NOT correct on pg 4-12 which says the climate control timer sets the start time, it actually sets the end time).

This is fine if I leave at 7AM, but suppose I leave at 8AM, I think there is a way to manually start the heat at say, 7:45 and have the car warm when I leave. BUT when I try to manually start the heat (car plugged in, charge and climate timers set as above), put the car in ON mode (press the start button twice with my foot off the brake), the heater won't blow hot air, the lights on the climate control indicate the heat is on, but no heat comes out (and yes, I have the temp set to 85 or 90 rather than say 60).

Now, page 4-8 has a table that appears to me to show that the heat should work while car is plugged in and set to ON mode.

Can any S owners help me understand how all this works?

Are you using level 1 charging (with the charging cord supplied with the car)? Or L-2, with a 240 volt charging station?

LeftieBiker said:

Are you using level 1 charging (with the charging cord supplied with the car)? Or L-2, with a 240 volt charging station?

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L2. Standard Aerovironment home wall unit. Model EVSE-RS

stjohnh said:

..... I think there is a way to manually start the heat at say, 7:45 and have the car warm when I leave. BUT when I try to manually start the heat (car plugged in, charge and climate timers set as above), put the car in ON mode (press the start button twice with my foot off the brake), the heater won't blow hot air, the lights on the climate control indicate the heat is on, but no heat comes out (and yes, I have the temp set to 85 or 90 rather than say 60)....

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Did you make sure to start the car charging BEFORE you put the car in ON mode? In my 2011 Leaf, I must hit override, start the car charging, then turn the car on (you can also do this by pushing the start button once with your foot on the brake). Then check the energy meter to make sure you're consuming energy to heat.

Reddy said:

].[/quote said:

Did you make sure to start the car charging BEFORE you put the car in ON mode? In my 2011 Leaf, I must hit override, start the car charging, then turn the car on (you can also do this by pushing the start button once with your foot on the brake). Then check the energy meter to make sure you're consuming energy to heat.

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Well, no it is not charging beause it is already fully charged.

Yeah, on my SV, if I want to pre-heat and I happen to be outside, I step in and power it on. It heats (or cools) if the car is charging, but just blows air if it's plugged in and not charging. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have carwings, but it's really dumb that I'm sitting INSIDE the car, and I have to send a message to the Internet to turn on the heat in my car. Or unplug it and let it run down the battery. I hope someone posts a solution, because even with my SV it's annoying.

Reddy said:

Did you make sure to start the car charging BEFORE you put the car in ON mode? In my 2011 Leaf, I must hit override, start the car charging, then turn the car on (you can also do this by pushing the start button once with your foot on the brake). Then check the energy meter to make sure you're consuming energy to heat.

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Ah Ha !!! this clue helps. Turns out that if I plug in the fully charged car and hit the timer override, the car will go into charging mode for a short time (30-60 sec). If I then, QUICKLY put the car in ON mode and turn on the heater, it will continue to run even though the charging stops as soon as the electronics have figured out that the car is fully charged.

Seems like a crazy system, but at least I now know I can warm up the car when plugged in if I want to.

Reddy said:

Then check the energy meter to make sure you're consuming energy to heat.

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What energy meter? There is none in the S model.

Ray

planet4ever said:

Reddy said:

Then check the energy meter to make sure you're consuming energy to heat.

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What energy meter? There is none in the S model.

Ray

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Ray is correct, no energy meter in the S. However, while the heater is slower to heat than in our SV, I can feel it getting warmer in about 45 seconds, if I use my IR thermometer, it shows higher temp in about 5 seconds, and my WattsLeft meter has an ampere gauge.... so, I think the question of whether the heat is actually on is covered !!

I'm glad that seems to work. I'll try it the next time I'm at 100% (which is actually not too often). It's strange that the light in the HEAT button doesn't mean "the heat is on" but rather "I acknowledge that you want heat."

Staque said:

I'm glad that seems to work. I'll try it the next time I'm at 100% (which is actually not too often). It's strange that the light in the HEAT button doesn't mean "the heat is on" but rather "I acknowledge that you want heat."

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I usually charge to 80%, and if the charge has finished and I want to pre-heat the car, I now do the charge-override-ON mode-turn on Heat quickly before the car had decided that the battery is already at it's "full" 80% level.

Yes, does seem VERY odd that the Heat lights can go on, but only ambient air blows....

stjohnh said:

Reddy said:

Did you make sure to start the car charging BEFORE you put the car in ON mode? In my 2011 Leaf, I must hit override, start the car charging, then turn the car on (you can also do this by pushing the start button once with your foot on the brake). Then check the energy meter to make sure you're consuming energy to heat.

Click to expand...

Ah Ha !!! this clue helps. Turns out that if I plug in the fully charged car and hit the timer override, the car will go into charging mode for a short time (30-60 sec). If I then, QUICKLY put the car in ON mode and turn on the heater, it will continue to run even though the charging stops as soon as the electronics have figured out that the car is fully charged.

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This is the same in the 2011. If the battery is at 100% full, then I can't pre-heat with this method because I can't start charging either. Crazy, but it's what I've got since I don't have a smart phone. Glad you got it figured out. Sorry about the energy meter comment. I forgot that the S doesn't have the fancy screen.

Is there any rationale for WHY the car doesn't allow heat unless the battery is actually charging? I can't think of anything... this seems like a pretty clear bug. Can anyone explain why it might be a "feature" instead?

EddyKilowatt said:

Is there any rationale for WHY the car doesn't allow heat unless the battery is actually charging? I can't think of anything... this seems like a pretty clear bug. Can anyone explain why it might be a "feature" instead?

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Keep it from draining the battery when the driver thinks it's running off external power, I suppose. It would be better if it would simply turn the the charge cycle back on. You could also manually change the climate timer to get it to work.

stjohnh said:

My usual, which works, is set charge timer to 7AM, Climate timer to 6:50AM. This will charge car and shut off the pre-heat at 6:50 (the manual is NOT correct on pg 4-12 which says the climate control timer sets the start time, it actually sets the end time).

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Why does it work this way?

If I generally leave the house at 8am, wouldn't I want to set the climate timer to 7:15am (say) to have the car warm when I leave?

That requires the timer to turn the climate system on.

Isn't that a reasonable usage?

What do I do to pre-warm a charging car with the 2013 S as it actually works (timer turns off climate system)?

gillum said:

If I generally leave the house at 8am, wouldn't I want to set the climate timer to 7:15am (say) to have the car warm when I leave? That requires the timer to turn the climate system on. Isn't that a reasonable usage?

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Yes, that would be a reasonable usage, except that for optimum efficiency the system should be started just in time so that it reaches the desired temperature right when you are about to leave. That would mean you should estimate what temperatures the cabin and outside will be at in the morning before the warming starts, and how much electricity can be used for warming the cabin up. The "how much" part depends on whether the car is still charging or not. You probably don't know any of those facts the evening before, and even if you did, it would mean doing some calculations and fiddling with the start time every night. Therefore setting the starting time necessarily ends up with suboptimal efficiency.

The climate control computer in the car is awake at 7AM, does know the cabin and outside temperatures and whether charging has finished and, like all computers, is a genius at calculating. So just tell the computer when you need the cabin warm and let it decide when to start the process.

Ray

Glad I found this thread, this has been driving me nuts for a while now (my car is almost always at 100 percent in the morning). Just figured it was Nissan trying to screw over the S model owners again.

So I'm still a bit confused about how this works (or doesn't work).

If I want to use the Climate Control Timer.. does it actually work in the 2013 model S?

I'm asking for my parents (they have the '13 S and live in Wisconsin (cold!)). They don't use a charge timer. Generally they plug in when they get home and it's at 100% well before morning.

If they set the Climate Control Timer.. will it work as expected or is it non functional (do they have to manually start the heater on their own everyday)?

And the time you put in is not the start time (as the manual says)? I've never used the Climate Control timer (and I guess my 2011 would be different anyways).

thanks all,
Peter

prberg said:

So I'm still a bit confused about how this works (or doesn't work). If I want to use the Climate Control Timer.. does it actually work in the 2013 model S? I'm asking for my parents (they have the '13 S and live in Wisconsin (cold!)). They don't use a charge timer. Generally they plug in when they get home and it's at 100% well before morning. If they set the Climate Control Timer.. will it work as expected or is it non functional (do they have to manually start the heater on their own everyday)? And the time you put in is not the start time (as the manual says)? I've never used the Climate Control timer (and I guess my 2011 would be different anyways).

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Let me see if I can cover all the bases without any errors. I'm sure someone will correct me if I mess up. There are charge timers and climate control timers. In most cases they work differently.

• For all LEAF years and models except the S model, charge timers allow you to set both start and end times. There are two separate charge timers and each can be programmed for specific days of the week. For the S model you can set only the end time, there is only one charge timer, and it applies every day of the week.
• For all LEAF years and models including the S model, climate control timers allow you to set only the end time, i.e. the time when you want the car to have been warmed or cooled and ready to drive. A computer in the car decides when to start the process. The SV and SL models for all years have two climate control timers that can be programmed like their charge timers except for no start times. The S model has one climate control timer with the same restrictions as its charge timer.
• For all years, the SV and SL model timers, charge and climate control, are programmed using the center console, starting with the "Zero Emission" button.
• The S model timers, charge and climate control, are programmed using the 'Trip Computer', i.e. the display in the bottom center of the dash controlled by the top two buttons in the cluster of four between the steering wheel and the door.

Ray

P.S. When I say "all" I mean all available as of the end of 2013. There will undoubtedly be changes in future years.

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the great breakdown of the timers and the various models. Very helpful!

So are there any issues outside of what you have outlined? From what I read, If I set the climate control time to 8am (the time I want to leave the house) the car should be pretty toasty at that point (and the battery should still be near the 100% full mark)?

In this scenario the timer should work as advertised?

thanks much,
Peter