Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:10 pm

dm33 wrote:Say the benchmark is 70% as in the original note. If capacity of 69% causes it to be a warranty issue, then the fix may only bring it up to 71%?

That doesn't seem very useful.


The consensus seems to be that, although Nissan is only guaranteeing to provide a replacement with more than 70% capacity, they will go above that to avoid the cost of replacing the battery multiple times, especially if the car has many years or many miles to go to reach 5 years or 60,000 miles.

At the rate my LEAF's battery is degrading, I'd expect to reach less than 70% capacity by the end of the summer of 2014 (at a little over two years and 20,000 miles). Although it's possible, I'd be very surprised if I had to get the battery replaced multiple times between September 2014 and the time I return the car to Nissan in July 2015. Down here, the degradation doesn't slow down much during the late fall, winter and early spring. Temps can remain in the 70s and 80s all winter long.

However, if it does appear to be headed in that direction, I'll get another car and have the LEAF sit in my driveway most of the time. The battery will still degrade due to the warm temperatures. Then Nissan can have fun replacing the battery as often as they want.
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

User avatar
surfingslovak
Vendor
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:21 pm

mxp wrote:
Stoaty wrote:I have a question: Does the improved gauge accuracy translate into more energy being available from a fully-charged battery that has lost say two of the original capacity bars? That would be my expectation.
I dislike the idea of this software update made to "mask" the true health of the battery. If the battery does not measure 281 GIDs, it should be warrantied by Nissan. Period.

All fair questions, and interesting conclusions. My personal reading of the announcement is that Nissan will stick to the originally published capacity bar definition, and the software update will improve the accuracy of the gauge. Based on the data gleaned from owners online, it would appear that the gauge did not conform entirely to the capacity percentages it's supposed to represent. Again, that's just my personal opinion. We will have to wait for further clarification from Nissan, which is hopefully forthcoming.

ImageImage
Source: 2011 Nissan LEAF shop manual

Stoaty
Posts: 4478
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:26 pm

mxp wrote:Will the software update simply alter the algorithm of how the battery capacity is calculated/displayed given the existing state of the battery? I am not sure how to describe it but it's akin to software made to hide the true health of the battery.

Say:
281 GIDs = 12 bars
250 GIDs = 12 bars (after software update)

Surely you wouldn't want to purchase the vehicle with the lower GIDs even though the battery meter indicates full capacity right?

I dislike the idea of this software update made to "mask" the true health of the battery. If the battery does not measure 281 GIDs, it should be warrantied by Nissan. Period.

According to Nissan, it's the other way around. The current software "masks" the true health of the battery, making it look like it has lost more capacity than it has actually lost. The software update is designed to reveal the true health of the battery. There is plenty of information in the Wiki to support their contention that the current gauge is overly pessimistic about battery capacity. You can read all about it:

wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Range_Test_on_Cars_with_Battery_Capacity_Loss

PS Even with the current bars, 12 capacity bars covers a range of about 232 Gids to 281 Gids. It's only when you get below around 232 Gids that you lose the first capacity bar.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

Volusiano
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:29 pm

Valdemar wrote:Great that it is now official. However, I can't resist but say that one is likely going to be prudent by delaying the s/w update for the capacity gauge until 60 months or 60,000 miles.
I would assume that doing the sw update may be conditional to claiming the battery warranty, but maybe Nissan can clarify this point better.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13870
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:41 pm

Steve Marsh Had 17.5% degradation With 12 Bars (He Did Lose The Bar A Few Weeks After The GID measurement) So Hoping This Update Will Allow The Bars To Disappear More Consistently
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
DaveEV
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6234
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:48 pm

Weatherman wrote:It would be interesting if those of us, who recently lost a capacity bar, would get one back (at least for a little while).

The good news is that with summer nearly here people have been losing capacity bars like flies. :shock:

Stoaty wrote:Do you have info on the exact date the software update will be available at the local dealer? The main reason I ask is that I need to take my Leaf in for the my second annual battery check in 1-2 weeks and hope to get the software update done at the same time. If it will be a bit longer, not a problem, would just be a lot more convenient for me.

+1 - same situation here for me.

Valdemar
Posts: 2605
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Volusiano wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Great that it is now official. However, I can't resist but say that one is likely going to be prudent by delaying the s/w update for the capacity gauge until 60 months or 60,000 miles.
I would assume that doing the sw update may be conditional to claiming the battery warranty, but maybe Nissan can clarify this point better.


Wouldn't it contradict this part?

If your vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge is already displaying eight (8) or fewer bars of capacity prior to the above referenced software update (and within the first 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first), your Nissan dealer will verify this condition and arrange for the repair or replacement of the lithium-ion battery in accordance with the terms of the warranty.

User avatar
surfingslovak
Vendor
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:54 pm

drees wrote:
Weatherman wrote:It would be interesting if those of us, who recently lost a capacity bar, would get one back (at least for a little while).

The good news is that with summer nearly here people have been losing capacity bars like flies. :shock:

Word. I think part of the problem we are seeing this summer is that now California appears to be affected to a larger degree. The number of LEAFs there is likely an order of magnitude higher than in Arizona. Russ Finley made a nice graph last year:


Image

usadiamond
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:29 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 8667
Location: California

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:30 pm

This warranty just sounds offensive to me. A leaf with 9 bars or less is no better than a golf cart. First, false advertisement about 100 mile range BS and now warranty to guarantee 49 mile range?! I'd rather Nissan to be straight up and just tell the 1st gen Leaf owners to suck it up and prepare for their cars to run useless in a few years.
I still have all 12 bars, but only get about 60 mile range down from 80 after less than two years. #nissandisappointing

Valdemar
Posts: 2605
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:43 pm

usadiamond wrote:This warranty just sounds offensive to me. A leaf with 9 bars or less is no better than a golf cart. First, false advertisement about 100 mile range BS and now warranty to guarantee 49 mile range?! I'd rather Nissan to be straight up and just tell the 1st gen Leaf owners to suck it up and prepare for their cars to run useless in a few years.
I still have all 12 bars, but only get about 60 mile range down from 80 after less than two years. #nissandisappointing


Mine is about same age and I can still can do 72 miles in mixed cycle on mostly flat terrain just after hitting LBW. Never needed to go farther on a single charge but I'm guessing 80 is not out of the question. 100 mile claim was a stretch, but doable still.

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”