Nissan issues software update to solve 30 kwh battery issues

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goldbrick said:
SageBrush said:
Drive fast with AC on max to reach VLB quickly, and then grab a LeafSpy cell histogram of voltages.

On the theory that the BMS will allow the battery to run down to a lower voltage after the update?
More an open question rather than a theory.
 
soldcake said:
jbuntz said:
SageBrush said:
I'm not sure about that. Turtle is a result of the weakest pair, while GIDS is (I think) a pack average. So it *could* be 5 GIDS depending on the load and the pack, but that is more coincidental than anything.
Before the update turtle hit at 3.43 and after at 2.56v

hmm.... so, after the fw update, turtle more may degrades the pack faster.... :?:

:lol:

Yeah... we can assume Nissan did something that outtrumps trump's stupidity which seems to be the norm here

or

we can simply consider the outlandish thought that the BMS is still adjusting to new pack parameters.
 
For those that are doubtful about the Nissan update:

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-nissan-leaf-firmware-update-to-correct-capacity-reporting/
 
Hi so I went to Yorktown heights Nissan and got the recall done, they also did the SOH. I have a 2017 SL Its 1 year old.

The SOH paper came back at 82% and I was a disappointed that it wasn't higher. I park in the shade and do everything I can to keep the car cool.

Anyone get such a low score ( percentage after 1 year) 82%?

Funny thing was I got 5 stars in the 3 categories.

Now with the update: It definitely seemed to be more accurate with the range. When I charged it to 98% it had a range of 111 and I did close to that.
Thankyou,
CS
 
coldstorage5 said:
Hi so I went to Yorktown heights Nissan and got the recall done, they also did the SOH. I have a 2017 SL Its 1 year old.

The SOH paper came back at 82% and I was a disappointed that it wasn't higher. I park in the shade and do everything I can to keep the car cool.

Anyone get such a low score ( percentage after 1 year) 82%?

Funny thing was I got 5 stars in the 3 categories.

Now with the update: It definitely seemed to be more accurate with the range. When I charged it to 98% it had a range of 111 and I did close to that.
Thankyou,
CS

if u got 111 miles on a charge, I think you are a bit more than 82% SOH
 
I am wondering if anyone has had experience over several months with the software upgrade for their 30 kWh battery. My 2017 leaf has 10K miles and SOH of about 90% according to leaf spy pro. SOH varies between 86% and 94% depending on how I have been charging and driving.

I plan to take my car into the dealer for routine service next month, and to ask for the software upgrade. I am curious if there is any real benefit to the upgrade. I am rather disappointed to see such a large degree of battery degradation in such a short time with so few miles.

By the way, I posted this on another thread and got only one response, so I am also trying here.
 
bmw said:
I am wondering if anyone has had experience over several months with the software upgrade for their 30 kWh battery. My 2017 leaf has 10K miles and SOH of about 90% according to leaf spy pro. SOH varies between 86% and 94% depending on how I have been charging and driving.

I plan to take my car into the dealer for routine service next month, and to ask for the software upgrade. I am curious if there is any real benefit to the upgrade. I am rather disappointed to see such a large degree of battery degradation in such a short time with so few miles.

By the way, I posted this on another thread and got only one response, so I am also trying here.

There's no benefit to the upgrade other than to clear the way for a future battery warranty replacement, should you need it.
 
bmw said:
I am wondering if anyone has had experience over several months with the software upgrade for their 30 kWh battery. My 2017 leaf has 10K miles and SOH of about 90% according to leaf spy pro. SOH varies between 86% and 94% depending on how I have been charging and driving.

I plan to take my car into the dealer for routine service next month, and to ask for the software upgrade. I am curious if there is any real benefit to the upgrade. I am rather disappointed to see such a large degree of battery degradation in such a short time with so few miles.

By the way, I posted this on another thread and got only one response, so I am also trying here.

First post; prompted by this request - hi, forum.

New 2017 Leaf SV, owned since 11/2017 at odo 15 mi, upgrade done on 07/28/2018 at odo 10,056 mi
Spy leaf SOH reading immediately before upgrade: 101.84%
Spy leaf SOH reading immediately after upgrade: 101.78%

Average SOH prior: approx. 103% (min/max 101.84/103.6%)
Average SOH since: approx. 102% (min/max 101.12/102.91%) Current mileage 13,000 mi.

So, yes, not much of a change worth mentioning, beyond regular degradation.
 
roussir said:
bmw said:
I am wondering if anyone has had experience over several months with the software upgrade for their 30 kWh battery. My 2017 leaf has 10K miles and SOH of about 90% according to leaf spy pro. SOH varies between 86% and 94% depending on how I have been charging and driving.

I plan to take my car into the dealer for routine service next month, and to ask for the software upgrade. I am curious if there is any real benefit to the upgrade. I am rather disappointed to see such a large degree of battery degradation in such a short time with so few miles.

By the way, I posted this on another thread and got only one response, so I am also trying here.

First post; prompted by this request - hi, forum.

New 2017 Leaf SV, owned since 11/2017 at odo 15 mi, upgrade done on 07/28/2018 at odo 10,056 mi
Spy leaf SOH reading immediately before upgrade: 101.84%
Spy leaf SOH reading immediately after upgrade: 101.78%

Average SOH prior: approx. 103% (min/max 101.84/103.6%)
Average SOH since: approx. 102% (min/max 101.12/102.91%) Current mileage 13,000 mi.

So, yes, not much of a change worth mentioning, beyond regular degradation.

"beyond regular degradation"

ahhh...like say what?? :)

My 30 kwh LEAF went almost 30,000 miles with "minimal" degradation. Actually quite similar to your "degradation"
 
2016 SL. I was in the low 90% SOH (I think 92-94%) before I got the firmware update. Immediately I saw over 101%SOH after the update and the SOH is now back to 91.62% 3 months later. 72.82Ahr. I have 30330 miles on the car. 88QC's, 1085L1/L2's. It definitely feels like I'm down 9% in range. I don't notice it until the low end of the charge but it seems like that last 20% of the battery goes a lot quicker than it used to.
 
Tsiah said:
2016 SL. I was in the low 90% SOH (I think 92-94%) before I got the firmware update. Immediately I saw over 101%SOH after the update and the SOH is now back to 91.62% 3 months later. 72.82Ahr. I have 30330 miles on the car. 88QC's, 1085L1/L2's. It definitely feels like I'm down 9% in range. I don't notice it until the low end of the charge but it seems like that last 20% of the battery goes a lot quicker than it used to.

This is why I'm refusing to say that the software update cures the capacity loss problem. My best GUESS at this point is that there is a bug in the original firmware that affects SOME 30kwh packs in the way that Nissan claims: makes them under-report actual capacity. It doesn't look to me like this cures the design or chemistry issue with those packs that speeds degradation in most of them.
 
LeftieBiker said:
This is why I'm refusing to say that the software update cures the capacity loss problem. My best GUESS at this point is that there is a bug in the original firmware that affects SOME 30kwh packs in the way that Nissan claims: makes them under-report actual capacity. It doesn't look to me like this cures the design or chemistry issue with those packs that speeds degradation in most of them.
I don't think it did anything aside from reset the BMS. :lol:
I don't think I'm outside of normal degradation. 10% in the first year is expected isn't it?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Tsiah said:
2016 SL. I was in the low 90% SOH (I think 92-94%) before I got the firmware update. Immediately I saw over 101%SOH after the update and the SOH is now back to 91.62% 3 months later. 72.82Ahr. I have 30330 miles on the car. 88QC's, 1085L1/L2's. It definitely feels like I'm down 9% in range. I don't notice it until the low end of the charge but it seems like that last 20% of the battery goes a lot quicker than it used to.

This is why I'm refusing to say that the software update cures the capacity loss problem. My best GUESS at this point is that there is a bug in the original firmware that affects SOME 30kwh packs in the way that Nissan claims: makes them under-report actual capacity. It doesn't look to me like this cures the design or chemistry issue with those packs that speeds degradation in most of them.

How so?

Where is Tsiah located? It would be nice if he/she would click on their name in the upper right of the screen, then select "profile", then enter something meaningful into the location. Don't need to put in anything exact, just close enough. Anchorage, AK, Marathon, FL or Bullhead City, AZ?

Let's see. 9% loss at 30k miles, 27% at 90k, 30% at 100k, looks like on track to miss the warranty, which is at about 66%. So why is this a design issue again? If this is Anchorage, would be a problem. If Bullhead City, no. Batteries don't last forever.
 
What I'm saying is that the update just temporarily inflated the SOH by a bit more than the amount of capacity lost, with none of that 'phantom regained capacity' sticking around. So we have either a programming defect in the BMS that doesn't affect many/most 30kwh Leafs, or a software "fix" that doesn't fix anything. If my 2013 had suffered a 27% capacity loss over three years I'd have been damned upset.
 
LeftieBiker said:
What I'm saying is that the update just temporarily inflated the SOH by a bit more than the amount of capacity lost, with none of that 'phantom regained capacity' sticking around. So we have either a programming defect in the BMS that doesn't affect many/most 30kwh Leafs, or a software "fix" that doesn't fix anything. If my 2013 had suffered a 27% capacity loss over three years I'd have been damned upset.

Measurement on a group of cars showed that capacity was more accurately measured after the firmware update.

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-nissan-leaf-firmware-update-to-correct-capacity-reporting/

SOH is an estimate, not a measurement. Don't take it as exact, as it is not. At minimum, +-3%. Probably more. Especially with the bad firmware.

27% loss is not what is being reported. 9% is. 27% is a linear extrapolation based on 90k miles. Or 30% for 100k miles. Or warranty limit at 110k miles, 10k miles past the limit. Real capacity loss isn't linear, the first couple of percent should happen fairly quickly, then it slows down for a while. SOH might or might not show this, SOH is an estimate, remember?

If you drove 2013 for 90k miles and you had a 27% loss would you be damned upset? That's one and a half time the warranty. If you drove for $0.27 per mile, you would be damned upset? Really??? How cheap would it have to be to make you just upset, rather than damned upset? Would "happy" come before $0.00 per mile?

Less tax credits, etc. Plus insurance, electric costs, tires, window washer fluid, etc.

https://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/18-0090_2018-Your-Driving-Costs-Brochure_FNL-Lo-5-2.pdf

AAA says that an electric is still slightly more expensive per mile than a hybrid, and slightly lower cost per mile than the average vehicle. The electric is getting cheaper. The average vehicle is getting more expensive. Where you and I live, we should do better with electrics than the AAA's national average because our electric power is cheap and our climates make batteries last longer. We have a shot of beating the Prius, even with the older cars with smaller and shorter lived batteries. Someone in LA probably doesn't. Someone in Bullhead City??
 
WetEV said:
Let's see. 9% loss at 30k miles, 27% at 90k, 30% at 100k, looks like on track to miss the warranty, which is at about 66%. So why is this a design issue again?
It may not be from Nissan's POV, but a throw-away car at 100k miles is a BIG problem
 
Your really are a fount of obfuscation, WetEV, which is why I rarely read you. Mileage driven does not correlate to capacity loss, and with good lithium packs like the 4/2013 through 2015 packs, time, while a factor, isn't a large one. So we have my 2013 (and Cwerdna's, IIRC) Leaf losing about 13% capacity over almost five years, which is typical for a Wolf or Lizard pack in a mild climate. Then we have the above pack, losing 9% over something like 12-15 months even after the update. My skepticism over this magical "update," tempered by my always adding that we don't know for sure either way yet, isn't harming anyone and it may be steering people away from making unfortunate choices. Your unbridled optimism and claims of the "error" being eliminated by the update, OTOH, may be causing people to buy 30kwh cars that won't meet their needs in three, two, or even one year. Try to understand that what we write here is taken seriously by others, and that the quasi-authority conferred comes with responsibilities.
 
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