people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

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DaveinOlyWA said:
I guess you "might" get some idiot to believe that half assed TCO
ROFL !

I'm game.
What in my TCO do you find objectionable (other than it being a lot less than you pay) ?
Specifics please.
 
If you play the buying game right you can get super deals. Although I've never heard of making a good winning off a new car, I did buy a 1993 Mazda 323 for $250, did about $600 of work to it and drove it like that for about five years, with the exception of changing the oil twice a year (did it myself) and a set of tires I bought new for $30 a piece plus $50 for the tire change. I also got 40 to 45mpg in the thing! I even took that car clear to Puerto Vallarta and back. And then I ended up selling it for $1,000. And that was with only liability insurance.
 
IssacZachary said:
If you play the buying game right you can get super deals. Although I've never heard of making a good winning off a new car, I did buy a 1993 Mazda 323 for $250, did about $600 of work to it and drove it like that for about five years, with the exception of changing the oil twice a year (did it myself) and a set of tires I bought new for $30 a piece plus $50 for the tire change. I also got 40 to 45mpg in the thing! I even took that car clear to Puerto Vallarta and back. And then I ended up selling it for $1,000. And that was with only liability insurance.
Ok, consider this, you got up to 45 mpg, which means with gas running about $3.30 a gallon at the moment here, to go 90 miles you would have spent $6.60. Even the most expensive chargers (not counting Blink, which is ridiculously high) are $3.10 for me to go 90 miles. So, basically less than half the cost. Now, that doesn't factor in the $600 of work you did, the cost of the oil changes (don't forget to include the cost of your time), etc. It also doesn't factor in that the majority of my charges are completely free of charge, meaning that a more realistic mileage is $3.10 to go near 1,000 miles.

This is why I like the cost of an EV over a gas powered vehicle.
 
cmwade77 said:
IssacZachary said:
If you play the buying game right you can get super deals. Although I've never heard of making a good winning off a new car, I did buy a 1993 Mazda 323 for $250, did about $600 of work to it and drove it like that for about five years, with the exception of changing the oil twice a year (did it myself) and a set of tires I bought new for $30 a piece plus $50 for the tire change. I also got 40 to 45mpg in the thing! I even took that car clear to Puerto Vallarta and back. And then I ended up selling it for $1,000. And that was with only liability insurance.
Ok, consider this, you got up to 45 mpg, which means with gas running about $3.30 a gallon at the moment here, to go 90 miles you would have spent $6.60. Even the most expensive chargers (not counting Blink, which is ridiculously high) are $3.10 for me to go 90 miles. So, basically less than half the cost. Now, that doesn't factor in the $600 of work you did, the cost of the oil changes (don't forget to include the cost of your time), etc. It also doesn't factor in that the majority of my charges are completely free of charge, meaning that a more realistic mileage is $3.10 to go near 1,000 miles.

This is why I like the cost of an EV over a gas powered vehicle.
Me too. I love my Leaf. Why do you think I went from a 45mpg Gasoline to a 60mpg diesel to a 115mpg-e electric?

But on the other hand my used Leaf cost $9,000 after the Colorado tax rebate. Add interests and taxes and fees and it's over $10,000. It's all paid for, but trying to sell it I'm getting offers of around $4,000 to $5,000. So in the year I've owned it, if I sell it at that price I will have spent an average of well over $500 per month on the car.
 
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
What in my TCO do you find objectionable (other than it being a lot less than you pay) ?
Specifics please.
My car charges while I sleep. Factor that in.
You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY
Depending on the individual's situation, either could be correct ;) For anyone who can't charge at home or work, the latter is most likely.
 
cmwade77 said:
Ok, consider this, you got up to 45 mpg, which means with gas running about $3.30 a gallon at the moment here, to go 90 miles you would have spent $6.60. Even the most expensive chargers (not counting Blink, which is ridiculously high) are $3.10 for me to go 90 miles. So, basically less than half the cost.
I only wish DC FCing were that cheap in my area. That's why I didn't feel like paying an extra $1K to $1.5K for a '13 Leaf w/CHAdeMO when I was in the market for a used one to replace my the one I was leasing. Had already lived with a Leaf w/CHAdeMO for 2 years.

For DC FCing, the only 2 major providers in my area are Blink, which charges 59 cents/kWh for members. If I averaged 4 miles/kWh, that'd be 14.75 cents/mile.

If I only achieve 40 mpg in my Prius and gas is $4/gal, that's 10 cents/mile.

The other is EVgo. If I don't want to pay $20/mo fee w/12-month contract, DC FCing is $4.95 to START + 20 cents/minute (https://www.evgo.com/charging-plans/). So, a 30 minute DC FC would cost $10.95. $10.95 at 40 mpg and $4/gal is enough to propel my Prius 109.5 miles. It certainly won't add 109.5 miles of range to a 24 kWh Leaf, unless driven VERY slowly.

$1K buys 250 gallons of gas at $4/gal. At 40 mpg, that's enough for 10K miles of driving.

In my over 4.5 years of Leaf driving, I've paid $0 for any public or workplace charging and $0 charging subscription fees. Fortunately w/my current Leaf, most of my charging is for free at work, some at free public L2 charging and a tiny bit at home.
 
GRA said:
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
My car charges while I sleep. Factor that in.
You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY
Depending on the individual's situation, either could be correct ;) For anyone who can't charge at home or work, the latter is most likely.

I once took my Leaf on a 700 mile trip. Basically we went to the first L2 station (there are no DC Fast charging stations). It was free (most of my charging was free on that trip). During that time we ate lunch. Then we went to a campground and used L1 all night while we camped. Then the next day to a L2 for breakfast. Then off to our first destination. Then the reverse on the way back home. And that was basically how we did it. That and creeping along the side of the road at 30mph a couple times so I could make it up a 13,000ft pass. We even went through the highest town in Colorado on that trip and crossed the continental divide several times.
 
IssacZachary said:
GRA said:
SageBrush said:
You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY
Depending on the individual's situation, either could be correct ;) For anyone who can't charge at home or work, the latter is most likely.

I once took my Leaf on a 700 mile trip. Basically we went to the first L2 station (there are no DC Fast charging stations). It was free (most of my charging was free on that trip). During that time we ate lunch. Then we went to a campground and used L1 all night while we camped. Then the next day to a L2 for breakfast. Then off to our first destination. Then the reverse on the way back home. And that was basically how we did it. That and creeping along the side of the road at 30mph a couple times so I could make it up a 13,000ft pass. We even went through the highest town in Colorado on that trip and crossed the continental divide several times.
A perfect demonstration of how impractical a short range BEV is for road trips without QCs, or the time suck involved even with them beyond a single charging stop. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be, if you've got a better option. Way back in the early days on this forum there were lots of people making such adventures, but most quickly grew tired of the limitations, which is why most of those who've stayed with PEVs have moved on to much longer-ranged BEVs, PHEVs, or even back to an ICE.

BTW, when you say the highest town in Colorado, are you referring to Alma, Winter Park or Leadville? I've driven Trail Ridge Road through Rocky Mtn. NP (max. elev. 12,145') a couple of times, I-70 through the tunnel once and also across the divide on the dirt Hagerman Pass Rd. (11,979') that runs between Meredith and Leadville (we were installing a solar lighting system on the 10th Mtn. Division Betty Bear ski hut, and stayed in the Skinner hut).
 
GRA said:
A perfect demonstration of how impractical a short range BEV is for road trips without QCs, or the time suck involved even with them beyond a single charging stop.

Personally I'd be happy with 6kW level 2 charging stations all over the place, as long as they didn't charge an arm and a leg.

GRA said:
BTW, when you say the highest town in Colorado, are you referring to Alma, Winter Park or Leadville? I've driven Trail Ridge Road through Rocky Mtn. NP (max. elev. 12,145') a couple of times, I-70 through the tunnel once and also across the divide on the dirt Hagerman Pass Rd. (11,979') that runs between Meredith and Leadville (we were installing a solar lighting system on the 10th Mtn. Division Betty Bear ski hut, and stayed in the Skinner hut).

I meant Leadville.

PS. I grew up in Alma.
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanLeafOwners/permalink/2083995551698423/ is another case. That person got rid of their '17 Leaf and went to a Honda Civic.

I don't know how well that person explored charging or knew of what options there were/weren't where they were going . For those who know the Bay Area, that person did have to go up the steep grades of highway 17 (w/a 50+ mph speed limit up those grades) to go to/from Santa Cruz. That person in some earlier requests for help was using the GOM and became hostile to some who tried to help.

I've personally seen my GOM drop ~40 miles after traveling 10 miles uphill on highway 17.
 
I'm seriously considering getting rid of my LEAF, but I can't imagine going back to full ICE, I'll most likely choose a PHEV like Volt or a hybrid like the new Honda Accord Hybrid.
 
cwerdna said:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanLeafOwners/permalink/2083995551698423/ is another case. That person got rid of their '17 Leaf and went to a Honda Civic.
Coincidentally, my son just bought a 2018 Honda Civic Turbo instead of the Tesla Model 3 that he had a deposit on. Very nice car. Interestingly, he is getting better mileage in the new car with 175 HP (about 36 MPG) than he previously got with his 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid with about 90 HP (about 34 MPG with an ailing battery). Five of his coworkers now have Teslas, so he had quite a bit of peer pressure to purchase the Model 3.
cwerdna said:
I don't know how well that person explored charging or knew of what options there were/weren't where they were going . For those who know the Bay Area, that person did have to go up the steep grades of highway 17 (w/a 50+ mph speed limit up those grades) to go to/from Santa Cruz. That person in some earlier requests for help was using the GOM and became hostile to some who tried to help.

I've personally seen my GOM drop ~40 miles after traveling 10 miles uphill on highway 17.
If you live on the Santa Cruz side, you are all set as long as you can make it back to the top of the hill in the evening (assuming you haven't lost all of your regen due to battery degradation)!
 
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