Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

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internalaudit

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
76
I'm a Tesla Model 3 reservation holder but live in Canada so my delivery estimate won't be until late 2018 and so I will have a chance to comparison shop the all new Leaf and other BEVs coming to market.

I just realized that my main concerns with the Model 3 are:
  • lack of Right to Repair / open service manuals and parts
    significant cut in warranty on the drive unit and battery
    lack of heated steering wheel
    dynamic cruise control is part of a $5k USD Premium Package

For the current gen Leaf, the lack of active cooling is the main drawback correct? Are there any other major issues current owners have with the Leaf (aside from slight deterioration in driving range)?

The Model 3 looks sporty and fun to drive but the practical side in me thinks I might have to go with a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, or even Toyota for our third car, which will most likely be a BEV. We have a Honda and Toyota at the moment and they've been quite trouble-free and we tend to hang on to the cars until repairs become too costly (which hasn't really happened).
 
Forgot to include the article:
https://electrek.co/2017/01/30/tesla-opening-up-service-replacement-parts/
 
internalaudit said:
I'm a Tesla Model 3 reservation holder but live in Canada so my delivery estimate won't be until late 2018 and so I will have a chance to comparison shop the all new Leaf and other BEVs coming to market.

I just realized that my main concerns with the Model 3 are:
  • lack of Right to Repair / open service manuals and parts
    significant cut in warranty on the drive unit and battery
    lack of heated steering wheel
    dynamic cruise control is part of a $5k USD Premium Package

I think manuals are not difficult to get and parts are available but not the HV components so if you are working on the HV systems you know how to get parts.. Tesla's have so little pack degradation and issues it has been a non issue the the battery and drive warranty is very good. The $5k package has many things and my guess is few cars are sold without it.
 
You are right about little degradation for a Model S or X but the 3 will have a limited battery and drive unit warranty. Also, who has actually gotten parts for a Tesla without going through a Service Center? At least with Nissan, the labor rate is probably $70-90 USD/hour and parts are probably going to be considerably less costly.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-specs.94989/

Vehicle: 4 year, 50,000 mile limited warranty
Battery warranty: 8 year, 100,000 mile (120,000 mile with Long Range Battery)
 
I hadn't heard that the 3 would lack a heated steering wheel (with a "cold weather package"). Having driven with one in my LEAF for the last 3 winters (and having it in the S), I think it's a must-have for any future car I drive. That, if anything, would make me rethink my reservation on the 3. :!:
 
From TMC and the specs, the PUP does not include a heating steering wheel.

Also, to get dynamic cruise control, Tesla wants to charge $5k USD for the EAP.

I'll wait it out and see. I'll be surely test driving the new Leaf and the Niro/Kona as well as the Honda BEV (non-Clarity) before deciding on a Model 3. Will also look at the ESA (extended warranty) to see what components' coverage they will bump up (like drive unit and battery).
 
"
For the current gen Leaf, the lack of active cooling is the main drawback correct? Are there any other major issues current owners have with the Leaf (aside from slight deterioration in driving range)?"

Major deterioration in range

---
I don't know if the base Model 3 will have heated seats or heated wheel, but I'll be amazed if the PUP does not. After all, the latter has heated seats and side mirrors.
 
internalaudit said:
For the current gen Leaf, the lack of active cooling is the main drawback correct?
Lack of active cooling is a drawback in Southern Arizona. Not so clear why lack of active cooling would be an issue in Canada. It has not been a drawback for me in western Oregon. And there have been two steps up in the chemistry of the battery pack in the gen 1 LEAF. The first occurred at 4/13, and the second occurred at the start of the '15 model year (lizard battery). This is also very relevant to the question of battery degradation.
 
And there have been two steps up in the chemistry of the battery pack in the gen 1 LEAF. The first occurred at 4/13, and the second occurred at the start of the '15 model year (lizard battery). This is also very relevant to the question of battery degradation.

Unfortunately, there seems to be evidence that there has been a third step - backward - with the 30kwh packs. They seem less heat-resistant than the 2015 24kwh packs.
 
Resale value is likely to be much higher with the Tesla due to the ability to do over the air upgrades to EAP and FSD. Degradation may not be as much of an issue in Canada as you mentioned. Adaptive cruise control will be an extra $5k as part of EAP, but regular cruise control is there, along with automatic emergency braking, and side collision alerts in the base model. You'll be paying an extra $5k to get the SL trim if you want adaptive cruise control on the Leaf, as I doubt it will be on the S or SV trims.

Another consideration, even if you do not need 220 miles range, over 10-15 years of usage, 15% degradation on a 220 mile range battery (187 remaining) is less impacting than a 15% degradation on a 160 mile battery (136mi remaining.) Although given a larger capacity, it will have less charge/discharge cycles making for less degradation. The warranties on both cars batteries are 8 years, 100,000 miles for the base (120,000 miles for long range Model 3.)

But going back to the first topic, any features you have on your Leaf are set in stone, while Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving can be unlocked on the Model 3 whenever you like, (or whenever they work at a level that you're happy with.) Nissan doesn't seem to show any interest in allowing you to upgrade your Leaf in any way, as exampled by their refusal to put 30kWh packs into 24kWh cars when replacing packs. You must stay with the 24kWh. I'm sure the same will be with their ProPilot technology as well.

Just my thoughts, but in any event, from what I've read online, Canadians won't be able to get the Model 3 until late 2018 at the earliest, anyhow. My wait is until June 2018 for Arkansas.
 
You'll be paying an extra $5k to get the SL trim if you want adaptive cruise control on the Leaf, as I doubt it will be on the S or SV trims.

IIRC, the ACC is part of the $900 Tech package, available on the both SV and SL. And, of course, for $900, not $5000...
 
Durandal said:
Resale value is likely to be much higher with the Tesla due to the ability to do over the air upgrades to EAP and FSD. Degradation may not be as much of an issue in Canada as you mentioned. Adaptive cruise control will be an extra $5k as part of EAP, but regular cruise control is there, along with automatic emergency braking, and side collision alerts in the base model. You'll be paying an extra $5k to get the SL trim if you want adaptive cruise control on the Leaf, as I doubt it will be on the S or SV trims.

Another consideration, even if you do not need 220 miles range, over 10-15 years of usage, 15% degradation on a 220 mile range battery (187 remaining) is less impacting than a 15% degradation on a 160 mile battery (136mi remaining.) Although given a larger capacity, it will have less charge/discharge cycles making for less degradation. The warranties on both cars batteries are 8 years, 100,000 miles for the base (120,000 miles for long range Model 3.)

But going back to the first topic, any features you have on your Leaf are set in stone, while Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving can be unlocked on the Model 3 whenever you like, (or whenever they work at a level that you're happy with.) Nissan doesn't seem to show any interest in allowing you to upgrade your Leaf in any way, as exampled by their refusal to put 30kWh packs into 24kWh cars when replacing packs. You must stay with the 24kWh. I'm sure the same will be with their ProPilot technology as well.

Just my thoughts, but in any event, from what I've read online, Canadians won't be able to get the Model 3 until late 2018 at the earliest, anyhow. My wait is until June 2018 for Arkansas.

Yes, for all three configurations, we are all getting Late 2018, and that includes Canadians who are current Tesla vehicle owners.

There was a time two or three years ago where Tesla contemplated on battery swaps but it never happened. Surprised why BEV car makers cannot make the battery modular and easy to access/replace. The battery is one of the biggest concerns for those converting from ICE to BEV. I wasn't too concerned until I figured that I should also be considering the Leaf 2.0 once the 60 kWh battery is offered.

I would really love to get a Tesla because it offers AWD and knowing my daughter who has her "learning" license, I will feel much better having her drive an AWD (along with winter tires of course) because it increases traction even on dry or wet roads but with AWD and PUP (for winter package and sunroof, which the women in my household like), we are already looking at $45k. No way will I pay $9k more for LR unless the ESA (extended warranty) doesn't have a lot of wiggle room for Tesla to shrug off performing warranty work and if it extends warranty on the battery and drive unit significantly since those are a few components no unauthorized independents can work on. So far, from TMC, it doesn't seem Tesla tries to skirt around its ESA responsibilities.

$58k USD (including ESA) over eight years of ownership (in case it crapped out on the 9th) would be a little over $7k/year. There's the $2-3k/year incremental savings not having to use gasoline though and our gasoline prices in Canada are around $3.50/gallon, about 50% more expensive than our neighboring towns in NY.
 
Toyota is really something. The 2016 RAV4 issues are mostly related to the electronic lift gate/rear door!
https://www.truedelta.com/2016-Toyota-RAV4/problem-histories-273

2017 barely anyone reported issues:
https://www.truedelta.com/2016-Toyota-RAV4/problem-histories-273


I checked the 2013-15 Leaf repair history and issues were more varied but most owners only logged in two or three records. I'm guilty of not logging issues with our 11 Accord and 16 RAV4 Hybrid.
 
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