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KaityVoivre

New member
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
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I'm a newbie to EVs but familiar with hybrids. My partner is looking to get a used Leaf here in Vegas. Her concerns are when driving out of town, how often she has to stop and charge and how very little fast charging stations there are between Vegas and any other place outside Vegas. I looked at Tesla stations and other stations, but I don't see how she could drive to LA from Vegas as the distance between charging points exceeds the vehicle's maximum optimal range. She's looking for reasons to get a Leaf over a hybrid but it's looking like a major hassle. For example, my 2000 Honda Insight can go 600+ miles on 10 gallons of gas, where a Leaf can drive a little over an hour before having to stop for perhaps hours to recharge.

For a commute to work vehicle it makes sense and we can charge it for free at our apartment, but for actually going anywhere else, it looks like a hybrid is more practical. Please spread some experience my way, I'm a hybrid person through and through, but I'd like to see her get the Leaf, but I too am inexperienced and dubious of the electric car, unless it's a Tesla, which is out of our price range.
 
You're spot on. If she needs it for trips like LA, the LEAF will be a drag, it's not much more than a commuter. A Tesla would do it, but until the 3 gets here, you'd have to find an affordable used one. A Volt or other PHEV would be you're best bet.
 
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway?

In Vegas, due to the insane summer heat (I've experienced it at least 3x), your battery will degrade quite rapidly (VERY rapidly if it's an '11 or '12 Leaf). Thus, your range autonomy will decline very quickly compared to the same vehicle in say Seattle, WA. See my posts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16463. We don't know how much better the "lizard" battery is that comes with 2015+ Leafs but there is still no battery cooling/thermal management.
 
Are you able to have two cars? If so, why not keep the Insight for the long trips, and let your partner get the Leaf (or other electric car) she really wants for commuting/shopping/dining out/errands/etc. ? Most EVers have easy access to a pure ICE or hybrid car, often the spouse's/SO's or because it was their previous daily driver that's now paid off.

The relatively small (for now) footprint of Vegas is ideal for an EV, but as mentioned above with the Leaf specifically the extreme summer heat will degrade the battery due to the lack of an active cooling system for it.
 
My Google tells me that it is almost 300 miles between LA and Las Vegas...

It is absolutely insane and ridiculous to even consider getting a Leaf for the purpose of commuting..

Also, I would not consider a Leaf AT ALL for a car in the hot climate of Las Vegas. In that area, you would be heating up the whole car (killing the battery) and using the energy intensive A/C all the time.

No, no, no EVs in Las Vegas.

I don't know if even a hybrid is good in a hot, desert environment. ... How bout a nice gas-powered vehicle?
 
Ask some locals how they use theirs:


http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/09/penn-gilette-tweets-about-his-new-love-the-nissan-leaf/
 
Nissan Battery electric vehicles are very good at ranges of about 70 miles and less currently. If you want a vehicle for long range trips (over 150 miles) go with a plug-in hybrid car for the best gasoline mileage. Some you may want to look at are:

Toyota Prius Plug In
2014 Honda Accord Plug in Hybrid
2016 Ford C-Max Energi
Chevrolet Volt
 
We drive from Atlanta to Miami or Toronto once a year, and we use the V8 ICE for that. I drive 65 miles round trip to work, and I use the Leaf for that. The money we save from me driving to work and running errands can even make it affordable to rent a car for the week for those long drives.
 
powersurge said:
Also, I would not consider a Leaf AT ALL for a car in the hot climate of Las Vegas. In that area, you would be heating up the whole car (killing the battery) and using the energy intensive A/C all the time.

No, no, no EVs in Las Vegas.

The reason the Leaf is not ideal for hot climates is due to the lack of active battery cooling (preferably liquid). There are other BEVs that do have active battery cooling, though besides Tesla and Leaf the only other BEVs that might be officially sold in Nevada are the Ford Focus Electric and the Mitsubishi iMiEV.

A/C on a BEV doesn't affect range like it does on an ICEV, nor as much as running a resistive-style heater.
 
KaityVoivre said:
I'm a newbie to EVs but familiar with hybrids. My partner is looking to get a used Leaf here in Vegas. Her concerns are when driving out of town, how often she has to stop and charge and how very little fast charging stations there are between Vegas and any other place outside Vegas. I looked at Tesla stations and other stations, but I don't see how she could drive to LA from Vegas as the distance between charging points exceeds the vehicle's maximum optimal range. She's looking for reasons to get a Leaf over a hybrid but it's looking like a major hassle. For example, my 2000 Honda Insight can go 600+ miles on 10 gallons of gas, where a Leaf can drive a little over an hour before having to stop for perhaps hours to recharge.

For a commute to work vehicle it makes sense and we can charge it for free at our apartment, but for actually going anywhere else, it looks like a hybrid is more practical. Please spread some experience my way, I'm a hybrid person through and through, but I'd like to see her get the Leaf, but I too am inexperienced and dubious of the electric car, unless it's a Tesla, which is out of our price range.

I concur with others that the Volt is probably a much better fit for her. If she really wants to drive from Vegas to LA, it will do so with barely more gas than your Insight. But if she can charge for free at your apartment, she can do much better than a hybrid with her regular commute.

Regarding heat, the Volt does have a liquid-cooled battery, and holds up very well even in hot desert climates.
 
If a liquid-cooled battery were installed, it would not be "cooled" beyond the ambient temperature. So I am not sure if an EV with even liquid-cooled battery would do well in an environment of 100+ degrees? They may sell EVs in Nevada, but I am not sure that it is a good thing to Buy one in Nevada....
 
powersurge said:
If a liquid-cooled battery were installed, it would not be "cooled" beyond the ambient temperature.
Not necessarily. If the liquid is cooled via a system that involves the parts you'd find in a refrigerator, air conditioner or chiller (e.g. proper refrigerant, compressor, evaporator, condenser, etc.) then the liquid and battery can most definitely be cooled below ambient.
 
cwerdna said:
powersurge said:
If a liquid-cooled battery were installed, it would not be "cooled" beyond the ambient temperature.
Not necessarily. If the liquid is cooled via a system that involves the parts you'd find in a refrigerator, air conditioner or chiller (e.g. proper refrigerant, compressor, evaporator, condenser, etc.) then the liquid and battery can most definitely be cooled below ambient.
The only thing I'd wonder about a battery that used some type of cooling like that is, wouldn't it greatly complicate the battery replacement process? I mean I guess if it would just be cooling say the top part of a enclosure but if the cooling liquid were somehow surrounding the battery I'd think battery replacement would be quite hard......
 
powersurge said:
If a liquid-cooled battery were installed, it would not be "cooled" beyond the ambient temperature. So I am not sure if an EV with even liquid-cooled battery would do well in an environment of 100+ degrees? They may sell EVs in Nevada, but I am not sure that it is a good thing to Buy one in Nevada....
EVs with liquid-cooled batteries do just fine in hot climates. There are plenty of happy Tesla, Volt, etc. owners in Phoenix, Las Vegas, and other desert cities.

Among modern EVs, it's really just the LEAF that suffers so greatly in the heat. This isn't just because of the lack of active cooling, as there seem to be deficiencies in the battery chemistry/composition as well. The newer LEAF batteries seem at least somewhat better, but I'd still stay away from Nissan EVs in a hot climate. Even in cooler climates, it appears that Nissan's EV batteries have greater capacity fade than those from other manufacturers.

Another option, for those able to stretch their finances some, might be to wait for a good deal on a used Tesla Model S.
 
jjeff said:
cwerdna said:
powersurge said:
If a liquid-cooled battery were installed, it would not be "cooled" beyond the ambient temperature.
Not necessarily. If the liquid is cooled via a system that involves the parts you'd find in a refrigerator, air conditioner or chiller (e.g. proper refrigerant, compressor, evaporator, condenser, etc.) then the liquid and battery can most definitely be cooled below ambient.
The only thing I'd wonder about a battery that used some type of cooling like that is, wouldn't it greatly complicate the battery replacement process? I mean I guess if it would just be cooling say the top part of a enclosure but if the cooling liquid were somehow surrounding the battery I'd think battery replacement would be quite hard......
Depends. Model S battery has liquid cooling. Per https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-is-getting-first-battery-swap-station.31947/page-25#post-1053575, at the single known swapping station, there are reports there that it takes 6 or 7 minutes to swap.

http://gm-volt.com/2013/08/02/spark-ev-versus-volt-battery/ briefly talks about battery cooling in the Gen 1 Volt vs. Spark EV. http://www.hybridcars.com/2017-chevy-bolt-battery-cooling-and-gearbox-details/ has some other discussion. I'm sure you can find more by Googling for various EVs and battery cooling.
 
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