Using D batteries to kick-start the Leaf

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brettcgb said:
ICE wisdom says to connect the booster negative (black) to the engine block (not the battery, and never the chassis), and the booster positive (red) to the battery positive. Good advice... if you're cranking an engine and need to handle high current (50A-200A).

In a Leaf, there is likely never any current loads on 12V greater than normal running loads (which the DC-DC converter will pick up in a few seconds). I believe connecting the booster cable negative to either the battery negative or the chassis may really be a "don't care".
Click to expand...
planet4ever said:
NO! Phil (Ingineer) tells us to never EVER connect directly to the battery negative terminal, and I trust him. It isn't a matter of load, according to him. There are some electronics involved that can get totally screwed up if you connect directly to that terminal.

Well, there is obviously an exception. If you take the battery out of the car, then you can charge it that way. But don't do it while the negative pole of the battery is connected to the car.

Ray
Click to expand...

On Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:07 pm (Re: Jumping another vehicle) Ingineer (Phil) writes how to use the Leaf to start an ICE:
"While Nissan doesn't condone it, you should have no issues jumping another car with the LEAF. Be absolutely sure to get the polarity correct, and connect the ground on the LEAF to the DC-DC converter, NOT THE BATTERY (-) TERMINAL!"

Not quite the same as connecting a boost battery to the Leaf's 12V battery to start the Leaf.

I've seen threads describing jump starting Leafs due to low 12V battery, but I'm having trouble finding them....
I'm not up to speed on searches within this web site, and I definitely don't know how to cross-post....
 
planet4ever said:
Phil (Ingineer) tells us to never EVER connect directly to the battery negative terminal, and I trust him. It isn't a matter of load, according to him. There are some electronics involved that can get totally screwed up if you connect directly to that terminal.
Click to expand...
Close. If I remember correctly, the hall-effect sensor is downstream from the negative post on the battery. If you connect directly to the negative post, you risk throwing a OBD code. No permanent damage, but easily avoidable. Also, it's just good procedure to always use a frame point as a proper ground.
 
brettcgb said:
brettcgb said:
ICE wisdom says to connect the booster negative (black) to the engine block (not the battery, and never the chassis), and the booster positive (red) to the battery positive. Good advice... if you're cranking an engine and need to handle high current (50A-200A).

In a Leaf, there is likely never any current loads on 12V greater than normal running loads (which the DC-DC converter will pick up in a few seconds). I believe connecting the booster cable negative to either the battery negative or the chassis may really be a "don't care".
Click to expand...
planet4ever said:
NO! Phil (Ingineer) tells us to never EVER connect directly to the battery negative terminal, and I trust him. It isn't a matter of load, according to him. There are some electronics involved that can get totally screwed up if you connect directly to that terminal.

Well, there is obviously an exception. If you take the battery out of the car, then you can charge it that way. But don't do it while the negative pole of the battery is connected to the car.

Ray
Click to expand...

On Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:07 pm (Re: Jumping another vehicle) Ingineer (Phil) writes how to use the Leaf to start an ICE:
"While Nissan doesn't condone it, you should have no issues jumping another car with the LEAF. Be absolutely sure to get the polarity correct, and connect the ground on the LEAF to the DC-DC converter, NOT THE BATTERY (-) TERMINAL!"

Not quite the same as connecting a boost battery to the Leaf's 12V battery to start the Leaf.

I've seen threads describing jump starting Leafs due to low 12V battery, but I'm having trouble finding them....
I'm not up to speed on searches within this web site, and I definitely don't know how to cross-post....
Click to expand...



Can somebody post a picture of where this connection should be made?, I don't know where or what the DC-DC Converter looks like.

Thanks!
 
Why is it that this even happens? You'd think they would have designed the car to cut off the 12V battery and all of the electronics if it starts going dead, and only providing power to the "on" button after that point.. it should be a normally open switch having no current flowing through it.. I can see a battery self discharging over a long period of time, but batteries discharging this fast seem to be the result of an engineering error by Nissan. They could have built it differently.
 
Oh, one more thing... If you want to use d cell batteries, use 2 lantern batteries... that way you only have 3 connections to make. I use lantern batteries all the time to quickly test 12 volt electrics in absence of other power.
 
I think there may be a simple, possibly even off the shelf solution that allows for the eventuality of no AC outlet: hardwire in a lead for a Battery Tender JR or similar battery maintainer, and then use either a D cell 12 volt battery box or a couple of lantern batteries taped together, attached to a mating lead for the maintainer. That way you can just plug your battery pack into the maintainer lead, start the car, and drive off. (Don't leave the booster battery connected!)
 
FYI, my 12V battery in my 2013 LEAF died last week (see other thread for more info about that), and since you can't shift the car into N without power (unless you are willing to pull fuses, and have 2 people available), your only option is to boost the LEAF.

The tow truck guy (sent via Nissan Roadside assistance) boosted the battery with an off the shelf 12V battery pack, which was enough to get it booted up and shift to N. Unfortunately, unlike with a gasoline powered car, the LEAF will shut down once you disconnect the battery booster pack, (my car died instantly, yet I had around 60 miles on the traction pack).

Tow truck guy recommended I get one of those booster packs from Harbor Freight, which I'm considering since they have multiple uses.
 
I would not be surprised if a 9v battery would close the contactor to the pack and get a LEAF going.
 
I don't get why you can't just put the jumper right on the battery isn't that where the voltage is all the time and where all the current flows from when you first turn the car on?
 
lion said:
FYI, my 12V battery in my 2013 LEAF died last week (see other thread for more info about that), and since you can't shift the car into N without power (unless you are willing to pull fuses, and have 2 people available), your only option is to boost the LEAF.

The tow truck guy (sent via Nissan Roadside assistance) boosted the battery with an off the shelf 12V battery pack, which was enough to get it booted up and shift to N. Unfortunately, unlike with a gasoline powered car, the LEAF will shut down once you disconnect the battery booster pack, (my car died instantly, yet I had around 60 miles on the traction pack).
Click to expand...
Even with two people, one pulling fuses while the other holds the brake pedal down, you can't get the car into N without power. The two-person trick is what is supposed to let it stay in neutral after you get it there with the power.

But with my armchair mechanic hat on, I would have thought if you left it connected to the booster pack for a few minutes, and if the 12v battery was not completely destroyed, the battery would have revived enough for the DC/DC converter to run and continue charging it. Is the "other thread" you referred to this one: Which battery dies first when leaving the car on? If so, I didn't see there whether they replaced your 12v battery. I can certainly believe that if the 12v can't take a charge at all then the car would die immediately when you disconnect the booster.

Ray
 
Original thread

They didn't replace the battery as they claim it's still in good shape. I have to bring it back because of major 12V issues, so hopefully they'll replace it now.

Even with the booster pack hooked up for 10 minutes, the car shut down within 10 seconds or so. I'm sure there is a reason Nissan decided not to allow the car to use the traction pack as a backup to a failed 12V battery (once boosted that is), but it's really frustrating.
 
Lasareath said:
Can somebody post a picture of where this connection should be made?, I don't know where or what the DC-DC Converter looks like.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
This is what it looks like on a 2012. The 2013 is different under the hood but you can find a good place to use the negative jumper cable (or battery tender) by following the big negative cable from the battery to where it bolts to the car (or DC-DC converter).

qwzw.jpg
 
lion said:
Original thread

Even with the booster pack hooked up for 10 minutes, the car shut down within 10 seconds or so. I'm sure there is a reason Nissan decided not to allow the car to use the traction pack as a backup to a failed 12V battery (once boosted that is), but it's really frustrating.
Click to expand...

Not what I would have expected either. I would have thought once the power steering is activated,
the battery would be charging, as the EPS would be a noticeable drain.
 
Given that lion's car has, in his words, "major 12V issues", we should not want to infer anything about the way our cars normally operate, from what he is observing.
 
ljwobker said:
Anyone know how much juice you actually NEED to kick start one? A lot of things use 12v batteries... boats, motorcycles, alarm systems, small home computer UPS's, etc... very likely that you could find a small, cheap, lightweight rechargeable sealed battery and keep it in your LEAF for emergency kickstarts...?
Click to expand...
I just measured mine. Once the car was on, the steady drain was ~2A. At some point during the startup (probably when energizing the HV contactor) it reached a max value above 10A according to the min/max feature on my meter. It must not have been much over 10 and not for long since the fuse didn't blow. 10A seems like a lot to ask of a D-cell. Even 2A is beyond what is documented for their discharge curves (500mA max that I could find). Anyone successfully use a pack of 8 D cells or equivalent to start their car?
 
TickTock said:
ljwobker said:
Anyone know how much juice you actually NEED to kick start one? A lot of things use 12v batteries... boats, motorcycles, alarm systems, small home computer UPS's, etc... very likely that you could find a small, cheap, lightweight rechargeable sealed battery and keep it in your LEAF for emergency kickstarts...?
Click to expand...
I just measured mine. Once the car was on, the steady drain was ~2A. At some point during the startup (probably when energizing the HV contactor) it reached a max value above 10A according to the min/max feature on my meter. It must not have been much over 10 and not for long since the fuse didn't blow. 10A seems like a lot to ask of a D-cell. Even 2A is beyond what is documented for their discharge curves (500mA max that I could find). Anyone successfully use a pack of 8 D cells or equivalent to start their car?
Click to expand...

Alkaline cells have too much internal resistance to supply 10A. They can do 1 or 2 amps but even that is asking a lot. For this reason, in high-powered flashlights alkaline cells are not used but rather NiMH rechargeables or Lithium cells (primary or rechargeable).
 
planet4ever said:
lion said:
FYI, my 12V battery in my 2013 LEAF died last week (see other thread for more info about that), and since you can't shift the car into N without power (unless you are willing to pull fuses, and have 2 people available), your only option is to boost the LEAF.

The tow truck guy (sent via Nissan Roadside assistance) boosted the battery with an off the shelf 12V battery pack, which was enough to get it booted up and shift to N. Unfortunately, unlike with a gasoline powered car, the LEAF will shut down once you disconnect the battery booster pack, (my car died instantly, yet I had around 60 miles on the traction pack).
Click to expand...
Even with two people, one pulling fuses while the other holds the brake pedal down, you can't get the car into N without power. The two-person trick is what is supposed to let it stay in neutral after you get it there with the power.

But with my armchair mechanic hat on, I would have thought if you left it connected to the booster pack for a few minutes, and if the 12v battery was not completely destroyed, the battery would have revived enough for the DC/DC converter to run and continue charging it. Is the "other thread" you referred to this one: Which battery dies first when leaving the car on? If so, I didn't see there whether they replaced your 12v battery. I can certainly believe that if the 12v can't take a charge at all then the car would die immediately when you disconnect the booster.

Ray
Click to expand...

So an external battery connected to the Leaf's accessory battery will try to balance the charge of both batteries? How long will it take?
 
joerivct said:
This is what I purchased:

http://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-B..._1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1398134092&sr=1-1

There's one a little cheaper but I wanted all the attachments; fits perfectly in the center console.
Click to expand...
Somehow I missed your post. I have been looking at these small packs for a long time now, but plenty of folks still run into the issue of these packs not being powerful enough to jumpstart a vehicle. Have you successfully used this with the LEAF and/or other vehicles?
 
Just curious. Why D batteries?

A (very) small 12v SLA battery can be had for ~$10. While it certainly won't jump an ICE car, it's more than enough power for the Leaf's electronics. At 2.1 lbs, you have a single battery you can leave disconnected in the glove compartment, trunk space, or probably even fashion a bucket/case for it parallel to the main 12V (my battery has ~1" extra room on the sides)
 

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