Alchemy - Turning Lead into Lithium - 12 Volt Battery Mod

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Do you know the weight of the stock lead acid and your new set up?

minispeed said:

Do you know the weight of the stock lead acid and your new set up?

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Stock Battery 26 lbs, New Battery 6 lbs :shock:

Since you lost 20 LBS over the front axle, your traction will be less. :shock:

I do have to wonder, however, if it really is worth the cost. I see that battery is listed as $260+shipping.

Saving 20lbs certainly isn't going to be noticeable on range. Do you expect that this battery will be viable for significantly longer than the stock battery? How many years do you expect it to last?

Been there, done that...with a different LiFePO4 battery. Not a single problem in almost 2 years.

http://stanton.myevblog.com/2012/01/16/getting-the-lead-out/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a picture in the MNL thread.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11999&hilit=+12v+battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, the other side of the coin is that I - and many others - have never had a problem in four years with the stock battery...

Stanton said:

Been there, done that...with a different LiFePO4 battery. Not a single problem in almost 2 years.

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TomT said:

Of course, the other side of the coin is that I never had a problem in four years with the stock battery...

Stanton said:

Been there, done that...with a different LiFePO4 battery. Not a single problem in almost 2 years.

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You've noted that often Tom. But too many owners HAVE had 12V problems. I think it's strongly dependent on how the car is used. And the things that impact the 12V health and longevity aren't at all intuitive to the average driver. Meaning they have no reason to suspect or avoid them. So while your battery has performed adequately, either by happenstance or deliberate behaviors, other drivers have not been so lucky. A deep-cycle 12V battery is much more appropriate for EVs that have extra-curricular 12V demands*. Tesla discovered this and had the sense to switch over. Nissan still hasn't gotten the clue.

* - aka "dark current" for telematics, timer management etc...

Nubo said:

You've noted that often Tom. But too many owners HAVE had 12V problems. I think it's strongly dependent on how the car is used. And the things that impact the 12V health and longevity aren't at all intuitive to the average driver. Meaning they have no reason to suspect or avoid them. So while your battery has performed adequately, either by happenstance or deliberate behaviors, other drivers have not been so lucky.

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But how many drivers have been affected? Posts at MNL tend to skew toward those, perhaps few, who have problems. I've never had a problem with my 12V battery, but I'm certainly not going to start a thread to say that.

A deep-cycle 12V battery is much more appropriate for EVs that have extra-curricular 12V demands*. Tesla discovered this and had the sense to switch over. Nissan still hasn't gotten the clue.

* - aka "dark current" for telematics, timer management etc...

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I agree that the solution is simple and Nissan needs to do something, since some proportion of the current batteries will fail under the current usage and charging regimen. There just isn't any reason not to fix this problem. Perhaps it is due to some sort of corporate inertia.

Many of the battery problems that do arise have no warning. The leaf battery problems have been very similar to prius problems. Yes not many in the leaf world have had problems but the oldest leaf's are just around the time that problems should start to appear. Normal life for a battery is 5+ years.

If you're planning on keeping the car for more than 5 years it would be a good idea to buy a new battery around the 4 year mark. Since a deep cycle should last at least as long as 2 stock batteries to replace it from day 1 and drive the car 8-10 years is probably not any different financially than replacing it after it fails, you just never get stuck.

PS the question on weight was for curiosity as the topic of a total weight loss has been asked before. Yes 20lbs is not that much on it's own but if you were to do a total diet you can probably get 150 + lbs out of the car and still have it function the same from the divers seat forward. The battery is one of the best bangs (excluding removing unnecessary things) for your buck when you put a car on a diet.

Slow1 said:

I do have to wonder, however, if it really is worth the cost. I see that battery is listed as $260+shipping.

Saving 20lbs certainly isn't going to be noticeable on range. Do you expect that this battery will be viable for significantly longer than the stock battery? How many years do you expect it to last?

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It was less about weight and more for performance. My family is an ACC vampire clan. Between the tablets and phones, cold weather, etc. My stock battery is only performing at 11ah, which is fine so far as the family uses the car everday. If it sits long enough I notice dim cabin lights when entering in the morning, that's what motivated me to look for this replacement. AGM replacement was expensive, so I figured why not just go full lithium. So far it has been flawless, no weak, flickering lights in the morning, don't have to worry about running the battery on ACC mode, etc.

dgpcolorado said:

Nubo said:

You've noted that often Tom. But too many owners HAVE had 12V problems. I think it's strongly dependent on how the car is used. And the things that impact the 12V health and longevity aren't at all intuitive to the average driver. Meaning they have no reason to suspect or avoid them. So while your battery has performed adequately, either by happenstance or deliberate behaviors, other drivers have not been so lucky.

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But how many drivers have been affected? Posts at MNL tend to skew toward those, perhaps few, who have problems. I've never had a problem with my 12V battery, but I'm certainly not going to start a thread to say that.

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Well, sure but when I started seeing battery issues reported in 2012 I checked mine and it was quite low. Or, to put it another way "I'd never had a problem with it" But it was on its way, after less than a year. And the problem is compounded because a low 12V on the LEAF has lead to all kinds of weirdness, including braking problems. Ain't nobody got time fo' that! On an ICE, you're usually alerted to a weak battery by sluggish starting performance -- i.e. long before the battery is weak enough to cause electrical gremlins elsewhere.

Random data point.

I have a LEAF delivered in Apr 2011 w 30K miles, still on the stock lead/acid battery - no 12V problems (so far.)

TEG said:

Random data point.

I have a LEAF delivered in Apr 2011 w 30K miles, still on the stock lead/acid battery - no 12V problems (so far.)

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Have you done a 20c test just to see what capacity it scores? Mine appeared to work fine on 11ah, but running on ACC could deplete it without warning. I don't know if the leaf protects from ACC over discharge or not? Anyone know, that is a good question?

knightmb said:

Have you done a 20c test just to see what capacity it scores? Mine appeared to work fine on 11ah, but running on ACC could deplete it without warning. I don't know if the leaf protects from ACC over discharge or not? Anyone know, that is a good question?

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The LEAF does not protect the 12 V battery from ACC use. Those who want to run the car's accessories while parked are strongly urged put the car in "Ready" mode. That will support the 12 V battery with the DC-DC converter and the traction battery pack.

About the only time it is "safe" to use the "ACC" or "On" modes is while the car is charging.