Considering making a leaf hot hatch (New perspective)

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Perrin21

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
10
Im considering making myself a leaf hot hatch. I think the main performance upgrades to this car will have to come from weight reduction rather than motor upgrades etc. Has anyone started weighing the components of the car yet?

I would like to know the following.

Weight of the wheels
Weight of the Brake discs
Weight of the Suspension struts
Weight of the seats, Front and Rear
Weight of the Doors incl boot and Bonnet
Weight of the glass (can be replaced with perspex (megane R26R style)

I would also like to locate someone able to source the Nismo VCM upgrade from japan and the suspension kit etc.

This is a serious project and I've just cancelled my Egolf to pursue this route. As an introduction to myself, i also have a Tesla Roadster and used to own a GTR. I believe the leaf has potential with the right time and effort.
 
The stock wheel tire combo 16s are about 40lbs with almost a 50 50 split 20lbs tires 20lbs rim. The 17s are approx. 10lbs more. This is just by a feel when I took my cousins wheels off but I think someone else did weigh them at around 50lbs.

see this thread
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=17478
10.4lb SSR Comp in 15x7 fit. They also come in 15x6.5 for 9.9lbs. Spoon SW388 or Desmond Regamaster (the spoon are made by desmond and re branded) in 15x6.5 are 8.8lbs. That's by far the lightest you will find.

They don't make many lightweight 15 5x114.3 wheels anymore so you'll have to source used or go with rota. The slipstream is the lightest at 12lbs and is a Spoon/Desmond knock off.

You have to be careful with 15s as they won't all fit. The SSR comp does, the Volk TE37 (9.4ish lbs in 6.5) and rota/spoon/desmond should based on what I read with civics and miatas on big brake kits.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-15-SSR-T...ls&hash=item3395e890b9&vxp=mtr#ht_4556wt_1017
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-15x6-5-3...ls&hash=item418b31f999&vxp=mtr#ht_4438wt_1006
Both of those vendors have a lot of light JDM wheels. I bought off of infield parts. Not too happy that one of the rims had been repaired so ask before if there are any previous repairs so if you find they are you can go through paypal and get some money back.

The lightweight rims I have on now on larger winter tires, it really does make a difference, the regen is much stronger and the acceleration is more instant but since the tire is a 25.5in over all it's around the same in gearing.

If you want to stick with 16s about the best you can find is the 12.5lb Kosei K4R (I checked with tire rack, the 16 will fit but the centre cap won't so it wasn't listed if you search by leaf. Search by a 2009 civic LX and you'll see it.) The RPF01 is also good in 16 at 13.7lbs.

You can get 17s from Volk (TE37, CE28) that will be around the same weight, but look at $2400+ new a set and $1000-$1500 used.

If you want to save more weight and you're getting a new leaf you can try to source the old aluminum panels from an auto wrecker. Hood, doors and some others I think. The hood would probably be the cheapest the doors would be the biggest savings.

In terms of the Nismo Japanese parts, good luck. Probably the only way to get them is to find them off a wrecked leaf in Japan. Others have posted about it and could give you more info but it doesn't look like it would ever happen. I've heard they only sell them to Japanese customers at the Nissan dealer fully installed and they take the old parts back as a core.

Suspension is tein for H tech springs, street basic coil overs (re use the stock tops) or blitz coilovers (I think the megan racing US supplied are the same as the blitz)
http://www.nengun.com/search/#g:1;c:3;m:328;t:n:u:y They are also a good place to look at used wheels. I did the H tech springs myself (bought them from nengun) and the suspension sturts didn't jump out at me as needlessly heavy, it's the arms that probably are. They are pretty much all cheap steel parts. If you really want to spend some money I know some guys who could probably build you a custom tubular Ti set up. http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

Also a previous GTR owner here, but a 1991 when it was still the skyline. God I miss that car, don't miss the gas though.

EDIT
Extreme thought here, I have no idea if this is possible. You may also be able to remove the on board charger and keep it in the garage or source an aftermarket one (such as http://www.emotorwerks.com/products...sal-voltage-ev-charger-fully-assembled-tested) that you can only take a long when you may need it.
 
minispeed said:
The stock wheel tire combo 16s are about 40lbs with almost a 50 50 split 20lbs tires 20lbs rim. The 17s are approx. 10lbs more. This is just by a feel when I took my cousins wheels off but I think someone else did weigh them at around 50lbs.

see this thread
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=17478
10.4lb SSR Comp in 15x7 fit. They also come in 15x6.5 for 9.9lbs. Spoon SW388 or Desmond Regamaster (the spoon are made by desmond and re branded) in 15x6.5 are 8.8lbs. That's by far the lightest you will find.

They don't make many lightweight 15 5x114.3 wheels anymore so you'll have to source used or go with rota. The slipstream is the lightest at 12lbs and is a Spoon/Desmond knock off.

You have to be careful with 15s as they won't all fit. The SSR comp does, the Volk TE37 (9.4ish lbs in 6.5) and rota/spoon/desmond should based on what I read with civics and miatas on big brake kits.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-15-SSR-T...ls&hash=item3395e890b9&vxp=mtr#ht_4556wt_1017
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-15x6-5-3...ls&hash=item418b31f999&vxp=mtr#ht_4438wt_1006
Both of those vendors have a lot of light JDM wheels. I bought off of infield parts. Not too happy that one of the rims had been repaired so ask before if there are any previous repairs so if you find they are you can go through paypal and get some money back.

The lightweight rims I have on now on larger winter tires, it really does make a difference, the regen is much stronger and the acceleration is more instant but since the tire is a 25.5in over all it's around the same in gearing.

If you want to stick with 16s about the best you can find is the 12.5lb Kosei K4R (I checked with tire rack, the 16 will fit but the centre cap won't so it wasn't listed if you search by leaf. Search by a 2009 civic LX and you'll see it.) The RPF01 is also good in 16 at 13.7lbs.

You can get 17s from Volk (TE37, CE28) that will be around the same weight, but look at $2400+ new a set and $1000-$1500 used.

If you want to save more weight and you're getting a new leaf you can try to source the old aluminum panels from an auto wrecker. Hood, doors and some others I think. The hood would probably be the cheapest the doors would be the biggest savings.

In terms of the Nismo Japanese parts, good luck. Probably the only way to get them is to find them off a wrecked leaf in Japan. Others have posted about it and could give you more info but it doesn't look like it would ever happen. I've heard they only sell them to Japanese customers at the Nissan dealer fully installed and they take the old parts back as a core.

Suspension is tein for H tech springs, street basic coil overs (re use the stock tops) or blitz coilovers (I think the megan racing US supplied are the same as the blitz)
http://www.nengun.com/search/#g:1;c:3;m:328;t:n:u:y They are also a good place to look at used wheels. I did the H tech springs myself (bought them from nengun) and the suspension sturts didn't jump out at me as needlessly heavy, it's the arms that probably are. They are pretty much all cheap steel parts. If you really want to spend some money I know some guys who could probably build you a custom tubular Ti set up. http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

Also a previous GTR owner here, but a 1991 when it was still the skyline. God I miss that car, don't miss the gas though.

EDIT
Extreme thought here, I have no idea if this is possible. You may also be able to remove the on board charger and keep it in the garage or source an aftermarket one (such as http://www.emotorwerks.com/products...sal-voltage-ev-charger-fully-assembled-tested) that you can only take a long when you may need it.
Click to expand...


Lots of great info right there :) thanks for that. Ideally i would like 17in wheels but very light weight and still have to look nice. No good having a naff looking car lol. Were the early leaf panels made out of aluminium? I wasn't aware of that? I also know someone who fabricates out of carbon fibre. Im in talks with a company that does polycarbonate glass as i think there is a nice invisible saving there due to the amount of glass on the car sides and rear. I have my Tesla roadster for speed but i want this to be something fun and unique. It seems like a win win with weight reduction on one of these as it will not only improve performance but also handling and range. All ideas are worth considering, keep them coming. Does the suspension improve things much? I don't want the car to ride too hard but id like it to sit lower and corner better.
 
Perrin21 said:
Lots of great info right there :) thanks for that. Ideally i would like 17in wheels but very light weight and still have to look nice. No good having a naff looking car lol. Were the early leaf panels made out of aluminium? I wasn't aware of that? I also know someone who fabricates out of carbon fibre. Im in talks with a company that does polycarbonate glass as i think there is a nice invisible saving there due to the amount of glass on the car sides and rear. I have my Tesla roadster for speed but i want this to be something fun and unique. It seems like a win win with weight reduction on one of these as it will not only improve performance but also handling and range. All ideas are worth considering, keep them coming. Does the suspension improve things much? I don't want the car to ride too hard but id like it to sit lower and corner better.
Click to expand...

For 17s here's sone of the lightest you'll find. TE37s 15.0 and 15.9 lbs
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VOLK-RACING-...es&hash=item3a9c592fb4&vxp=mtr#ht_2586wt_1046

The CE28 is lighter 13.8lbs for 7.5 wide, but I could only find new, $717 each, $3228 a set.
http://www.shop.upgrademotoring.com...1143-50-Titanium-Silver-WHLVLKCE28N1775TS.htm

SSR Type C (competition) range 13lbs for a 7.5 in wide to 15.4 for a 9.5 in wide and you can't get them brand new.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-17x8-17x...ls&hash=item5b088b48f0&vxp=mtr#ht_4357wt_1046

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-17x8-5-4...ls&hash=item5b07abfc22&vxp=mtr#ht_4112wt_1046

These ones say they are new, also the lightest of the combos but pricey.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-NEW-17x8...ls&hash=item51c78de34b&vxp=mtr#ht_3680wt_1046

Here's a good database of wheel weights, down at the bottom. Mostly older wheels though.
http://measurespeed.com/index.php

After looking at all that I think you couldn't go wrong with tirerack.com, the top 4 17 in wheels are 14.1 lbs to 15.4 and range from $159 (on sale now for the 15.4lb Kosei K6R) to $239 for the 15.2 lb Enkei RPF1 with the Kosei K1TS and K4R at $199 for 14.6 and 14.1 lbs. Factor in the customer service and cheaper shipping plus the ability to package and ship them with tires and there is little to be desired in chasing down an extra 1lb for $2000+.

If you don't need the back seats the best way to reduce weight is to take everything B pillar back and get it out, bring it down to bare metal. It's easy to un do (takes time though). In most cars it's been quoted as 50 to 100 lbs. If you do a heavy tint on the rears it won't be that noticiable. You could always create a black fabric and wire box for that section too. The big savings from carbon fibre would be if you were going with a skin. IE a hood or trunk that is only held on with pins and no hinges. It would be a pain to open but since you only really need that for waser fluid you could live with it, or put a tube that goes up to the windshield base. For the trunk you would lose the ability to open it from the outside, or lose the security of having it lock. I wouldn't recomend it for the doors. As soon as you want it to hinge you're looking at complexity that will add cost very quickly and add weight too.

Polycarbonate glass is easy enough and cheap enough to try working on it yourself. If you are cabable of removing the glass yourself and have a space large enough to heat and form the polycarbonate to the same shape you can do it with a simple hardware store spec heat gun. I got a 4x8 sheet to do my mini with for $40-60 but I never got around to working on it. Just be aware that no matter what it will scatch easily.

I'm happy with the Tein lowering springs that are on there, it's mostly for look. Since I use it as a highway cruiser I wanted the better aero but I didn't notice a big gain on the highway. I love having them when I turn but on the highway I would have stuck with the stock springs, it's the rears that bug me and I find it's bouncy. The blitz coilovers are rated at 4.5 kg/mm vs my teins at 5.3. The fronts are more at 5.0 vs the 3.1 that I like right now, however you also get a 32 stage adjustment to fine tune the shock.

I am going with a taller tire (25.5 which is the stock 17 height). If you're going to drop down to a lower profile tire then I'd say you NEED the coil overs to make it look right. A 215 45 17 would give you a good bump in low end without giving up too much in top speed or even a 225 45 17 which is close to the stock 16s. There are lots of good tires in those sizes. You can even get a decent price max performance summer LRR in 225 45 17
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...n&autoYear=2015&autoModel=Leaf&autoModClar=SL
 
excellent ideas, i will bear them all in mind. Id love to get a hold of the proper nismo options. Any ideas there? Has anyone actually been successful obtaining the parts?
 
Perrin21 said:
excellent ideas, i will bear them all in mind. Id love to get a hold of the proper nismo options. Any ideas there? Has anyone actually been successful obtaining the parts?
Click to expand...


I don't think this Nismo VCM is all that it's cracked up to be. You know the old saying, the simple answer is usually the right one.

Well the VCM is only available in Japan and only for 13+ cars, however the 11 and 12 cars had 20 lbft more torque for just over 200 vs the newer cars at 180. The 11 and 12 according to wikipedia were 3354lbs. The 13s lost weight but when they started production in the US they didn't fit the plant with the ability to use aluminum so acording to wikipedia the 13 is 3291, but a car and driver test of the 13 had it at 3353. The US has some of the longest warantee periods on new cars, this was the reason the prius V didn't come with LI Ion in the US (and the third row that the small battery allowed), they were afraid of bringing new unproven tech to the longer warantee. So the fact that Nissan detuned the torque because it wasn't needed was probably a push to make the car last longer and be cheaper for warantee fixes. This would fit with Nissan not wanting to bring the part over here.

So the most logical thing is that the VCM is the old 200 lbft program from an 11/12 model in the lighter weight JDM spec 13. If you wanted to get similar performance from an 11/12 here you'd just have to drop 63 lbs from the car. If you put all the aluminum 11/12 parts on a 13+ you should drop 62 lbs (assuming that's all that was lighter from the old car) then if you also put light wheels on and saved 50+ lbs somewhere else you should get similar performance to the 200 lbft cars with your 180 lbft. However weight savings has a better benefit. Since the cars, 200 ftlb and 180 ftlb will all reduce the torque when the wheels slip or at low speeds to "save" wear and tear are you actually gettting that 20 ftlb from a VCM upgrade at all times? There's a very real possibility that when the torque limits from a 200 ftlb car it drops to say X but when the 180 ftlb car limits torque it also drops to X. Smaller percentage lost in the 180 ftlb car but real world to the road torque may be the same through a lot of conditions. With light weight you get an actual performance benefit at all times.

It would probably be easier to get an answer to see if you could fit an 11/12 VCM to a newer car than source the JDM Nismo one.
 
Love the input Minispeed. I have been thinking about coilovers or springs as well. Do you have a picture of your setup?
 
I have Tein springs on my LEAF. Stock struts/shocks are woefully under-damped with them. Even with the stock springs I found the rear shocks underdamped, though the '13+ LEAFs supposedly have stiffer damping, I doubt it'd be enough to deal with lowering springs properly. Large bumps bounce you around a lot and you can tell you're bouncing off the bump stops (need more bump travel in both the front and the rear), though admittedly I forgot to trim the front bump stops as indicated in the instructions. The need for more bump travel might be mitigated with more damping, but I'm not aware of any struts/shocks with more damping. If your roads are smooth, it's not an issue, but if they're bumpy, it gets tiresome.

The Tein coilovers didn't get rave reviews, either. Complaints were that there wasn't enough bump travel again, IIRC. The Megan Racing / Blitz Coilovers were much better reviewed and the price is similar, so no reason not to go with those.
 
Zenehet said:
Love the input Minispeed. I have been thinking about coilovers or springs as well. Do you have a picture of your setup?
Click to expand...

These are on my winter 15s, same over all size as stock 17s, 205 65 15 and 215 50 17 are both 25.5in. Stock 16s will have .25in more fender gap as well as being .25in closer to the ground.

DSC_0622.jpg

DSC_0623-1.jpg

DSC_0624.jpg



drees said:
I have Tein springs on my LEAF. Stock struts/shocks are woefully under-damped with them. Even with the stock springs I found the rear shocks underdamped, though the '13+ LEAFs supposedly have stiffer damping, I doubt it'd be enough to deal with lowering springs properly. Large bumps bounce you around a lot and you can tell you're bouncing off the bump stops (need more bump travel in both the front and the rear), though admittedly I forgot to trim the front bump stops as indicated in the instructions. The need for more bump travel might be mitigated with more damping, but I'm not aware of any struts/shocks with more damping. If your roads are smooth, it's not an issue, but if they're bumpy, it gets tiresome.

The Tein coilovers didn't get rave reviews, either. Complaints were that there wasn't enough bump travel again, IIRC. The Megan Racing / Blitz Coilovers were much better reviewed and the price is similar, so no reason not to go with those.
Click to expand...

I have the 15 so I wouldn't say that the stock struts are woefully under-damped, just that they aren't perfect. Plus if you have an 11 or 12 you're probably putting them on used dampers and not brand new like mine. I might find that changes after 30K miles. I'd always expect stock dampers to go 60K, I figure if I get over 50% with stiffer springs it wasn't a bad match although I would like to get 75%. For the price difference if you're struts aren't brand new I'd say go with the Megan Racing coil overs. I kind of wish I had done that. If I wear out the struts in 30K I'll probably buy the Megan Racing coil overs since I'm planning on keeping the car over 120K.

This summer I'll try trimming the bump stops on the rear as I find the rear is too bouncy but it's the small ripple bumps that bother me so I think it's the spring rate being too high. My roads are pretty smooth for 95% of the driving I do.
 
Drees and Minispeed thanks for the input

and Minispeed thanks for the pictures also I have to ask 143 miles in one charge! That is almost double what I generally get. Amazing.
 
minispeed said:
I have the 15 so I wouldn't say that the stock struts are woefully under-damped, just that they aren't perfect. Plus if you have an 11 or 12 you're probably putting them on used dampers and not brand new like mine. I might find that changes after 30K miles. I'd always expect stock dampers to go 60K, I figure if I get over 50% with stiffer springs it wasn't a bad match although I would like to get 75%. For the price difference if you're struts aren't brand new I'd say go with the Megan Racing coil overs. I kind of wish I had done that. If I wear out the struts in 30K I'll probably buy the Megan Racing coil overs since I'm planning on keeping the car over 120K.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the difference is that your '15 struts/shocks are just stiffer than the '11-12s. I also kinda wish I had gone with the Megan Racing coilovers, but the $700 extra they cost is really hard to justify. Realistically, I'd probably be pretty satisfied with springs that are half way between stock and Tein, but I'm not aware of any other aftermarket springs for the LEAF.

minispeed said:
This summer I'll try trimming the bump stops on the rear as I find the rear is too bouncy but it's the small ripple bumps that bother me so I think it's the spring rate being too high. My roads are pretty smooth for 95% of the driving I do.
Click to expand...
Yeah, ripple bumps are not likely to be significantly affected by the bump stops, but maybe? Depends on how long and progressive the stock bump stops are. For me, it's any medium or larger bump or larger undulations/bumps in the road. Worst in the front, especially if a wheel is already compressed by braking or cornering. Would like to pull the suspension apart again to and take a look at exactly how long the stock bump stops are and how progressive they are. It could be at the new lower height the stock bump stops are already touching, so shortening a bit could significantly improve the situation.
 
Zenehet said:
Drees and Minispeed thanks for the input

and Minispeed thanks for the pictures also I have to ask 143 miles in one charge! That is almost double what I generally get. Amazing.
Click to expand...

It was brand new, it wasn't too cold (it was August but still dropped down to 11ish C, I wanted to use heat but didn't), the first 45 miles was a 35mph ish drive to work, the next 55 miles were a 30mph ish drive home from work, half on country roads with zero traffic, the next was 25-30ish looping flat country roads, no traffic and the last bit was looping a parking lot near my house. In the last mile I got bored and cold and floored it 6 times from a stop 0-25 before turtle.


drees said:
Yeah, ripple bumps are not likely to be significantly affected by the bump stops, but maybe? Depends on how long and progressive the stock bump stops are. For me, it's any medium or larger bump or larger undulations/bumps in the road. Worst in the front, especially if a wheel is already compressed by braking or cornering. Would like to pull the suspension apart again to and take a look at exactly how long the stock bump stops are and how progressive they are. It could be at the new lower height the stock bump stops are already touching, so shortening a bit could significantly improve the situation.
Click to expand...

That's my only theory if the bumps are already touching and not progressive at all then the effective spring rate is higher and that may be what's making the suspension feel stiff on small bumps.
 
Nice!

minispeed said:
Zenehet said:
Drees and Minispeed thanks for the input

and Minispeed thanks for the pictures also I have to ask 143 miles in one charge! That is almost double what I generally get. Amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It was brand new, it wasn't too cold (it was August but still dropped down to 11ish C, I wanted to use heat but didn't), the first 45 miles was a 35mph ish drive to work, the next 55 miles were a 30mph ish drive home from work, half on country roads with zero traffic, the next was 25-30ish looping flat country roads, no traffic and the last bit was looping a parking lot near my house. In the last mile I got bored and cold and floored it 6 times from a stop 0-25 before turtle.
 
Super6 said:
Do you have a part# for the springs and would you recommend them?
Click to expand...


SKK32-G1B00
http://www.nengun.com/tein/h-tech-springs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I recommend them but they aren't perfect. They are very pricey for springs that you can source locally, about 1.5-2x the cost to get them out to you. Coil overs that you can get here are a decent price compared to other coil overs.

If the car is used I would recommend coil overs as the stiffer spring will wear a half worn shock much quicker, if it's new and you just want the look to save some money these are good.

http://www.meganracing.com/product_detail.asp?prodid=1615&catid=31" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


If I plan on keeping my car 8+ years I'll get coil overs when stock shocks get weak.
 

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