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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1317
Location: La Jolla, CA
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Re: The charging timer is quite inadequate

Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:10 am

kwhirky wrote:One very fundamental problem is that "Days" can currently only be assigned to one "Timer" at a time.

This limitation is something that could easily be fixed exclusively with a software update --- even with the most minimal change to the existing interface. When assigning Days to Timers, instead of just "Timer1" and "Timer2", the options should be "Timer1", "Timer2", "Both", "None". How easy is that.

Not sure I understand the logic behind this suggestion. How would the car interpret the command to use "Both" timers on the same day? Seem to me that would be an ambiguous and confusing command, and would have to include some other element to determine priority. Please explain further.

Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The charging timer is quite inadequate

Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:50 am

kwhirky wrote:When assigning Days to Timers, instead of just "Timer1" and "Timer2", the options should be "Timer1", "Timer2", "Both", "None".
As mentioned before, Timer1 and Timer2 can conflict with each other.

kwhirky wrote:In terms of this addressing a standard use case --- this car only has a ~80 mile range (at 80% charge). So I'd argue that it's quite common for people needing to charge both at home, and at work for the normal working week.
The only reason to use a timer is so that you're charging during off peak hours to save money. That means the timer is really only needed at home and not at work. So one timer per day should suffice.

The second timer is needed more like for weekends when the peak time may not apply.

When you're charging away from home, the Timer Override button is designed to allow you to charge any time. But it has 2 flaws. The first flaw is that it doesn't allow you to set 80% charging. The second flaw is that it will go back to the timer if somebody disconnect and reconnect the charging connector from your car while you're gone, possibly not enabling the charging to resume upon reconnect.

If you have a charging station at home that has its own timer, you can work around the Timer Override flaw by setting the Off Peak schedule using the home charging station's timer, and set the Leaf timer's from 12am to 12am at 80% so you can charge anytime outside the house without having to resort to the Timer Override button at all.

I'm not saying that I support how they design the Leaf timer. Of course they can do a better job with it. I'm just saying that we need to understand why they design it the way it is so we can use it within that intention so we can get it to work better for us.

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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:34 am
Delivery Date: 26 Sep 2012

Re: The charging timer is quite inadequate

Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:05 am

GM did years of research into Volt battery on how to get best performance & longevity out of it. They decided that the harshest abuse of Lithium batteries occur when battery is fully discharged or fully charged. When charging the last 10% (90-100% was the worse). They had originally planned on a 80% battery rance based on this information, IE battery would never discharge below 10 % and never above 90 % of capacity. This was to extend battery life. Since I do not own a Volt, but understand price for 2013 model has dropped like a rock (closer to Volt), I cannot say for a fact what their final production design was.
How does this apply to Leaf:
1) Leaf has two charge settings 100% & 80 %. This does not seem to agree with GM's findings on its face, albeit battery tech is slightly different. When Leaf says 80% does that mean truly there is 20 % capacity more that can be charged or is system engineered so that 100% is really say 90% of true capacity. With all the problems Nissan is having with loss of battery range in Arizona, regardless of their statement :twisted: "We do not guarantee any specific range on the Leaf", if they want to continue selling them they should do what they can to reduce this problem.
A) :idea: Better education of buyers before delivery and change default from 100% to 80 %, user must hit button to get 100% or set timer to 100%. Early adopters generally know these things & do what they can to take care of their Leafs. Most of us Set timers at 80% as soon as possible if they was sufficient to our daily commutes. I have owned my Leaf over a year and have not lost any capacity and live in IE of California where it does get above 100 degrees in Summer.
B) :idea: Provide option to charge to 90%. those who need a little extra range without damaging battery by charging the last 10% shoudl have an option to get it, unless Nissan Engineers were not smart enough when designing monitoring system to allow a SW update to tell when battery was at 90% charge. IE hardware based limits.
2) Today for first time I drove my Leaf to work about 63 miles one way, with headlights on (left at 3:45 AM). Drove at 55 MPH the entire way arrived with 17 miles to spare. :?: Now seeing what 11 hours of 120 VAC charging will do , IE get me home? With 17 miles to spare upon arrival would 90 % charge have gotten me to work with 1 or 2 miles to spare as opposed to the 100% I started with. If so would 90% save my battery from the Arizona Fiasco. I would rather not charge to 100% each day but 80 % is not going to cut it. If no help from Nissan is forth comming the Volt at its new reduced price is looking very tempting and at 2 years I can sell my Leaf without penalty.
3)Does anyone know why Nissan will not give users option to charge to 90%? Would it help prevent Arizona like loss of battery capacity and still give more miles & smiles?

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Delivery Date: 06 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 007602
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Re: The charging timer is quite inadequate

Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:17 am

I wanted to thank everyone that has posted on this thread.
With the evidence of capacity loss, I believe that Nissan, because they designed their product
to only two setting's has set the user up for failure. They do need to take more ownership in their product.
I would like to see three timers. No restriction on percentage, let us choose if we want to be conservative or rock the full charge. This would give us the ability to figure out the exact percentage we need for our trip, staying away from the destructive sides of the battery.
Last edited by HairyCairy on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:34 am
Delivery Date: 26 Sep 2012

Re: The charging timer is quite inadequate

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:49 am

We all agree they screwed up, the question I pose to Nissan is: 1) Can they fix it with software update on original 2011 Leaf? 2) Will they, 3) If so when. Whether or not you retain or loose customers., possibly for life, rests on your answers Nissan ! ;)

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