Any tips for cold weather driving

Hi
Today was the first cold day here... well not really but the first time that I drove the fully charged Leaf while the temperature was 25 F. I started with 90 miles range and by the time I was done driving driving 6 miles, it was down to 70 miles!! Also, the car made a wierd sound even at 40 mph.... kinda sound that 2012 makes while one is going under 30 mph..... Any one had similar experiences or tips to increase efficiency in cold weather.... I am concerned as here the temperatue can easily go down to 10 F in January!!

Raza
Maryland, USA

Are you using "Eco" mode or "D" mode? Recommend staying in "Eco" mode.
Also, try to keep the "bubble" indicator on the top dash as close to center as possible (single bubble lit); refrain from lead-foot driving.
That should get you your full range. Today my commute was in 24F weather, no problem, but tomorrow's supposed to be quite a bit colder, so, we'll see.

Raza said:

I started with 90 miles range and by the time I was done driving driving 6 miles, it was down to 70 miles!!

Click to expand...

So 6 miles cost you 20. Don't use that to project 30 miles total range. The GOM is already making the adjustment. Although is may still come in a little lower, don't use the drop to make your own estimate. It is not a state of charge meter.

A Seattle winter probably doesn't count to someone in the Midwest or Northeast, but here's what we learned back in Jan/Feb of last year:
(1) Preheat in the morning before unplugging for 5-10 minutes: brings the fluid in the heat exchanger up to temperature, so you don't waste battery power.
(2) Use the "defrost + feet" setting on the climate control: that seems to be the most efficient combination, at least in Seattle.
(3) Wear a sweater and gloves: an electric car isn't like a gas car. A gasoline engine wastes 80% of the energy it produces, so heat is "free". In an electric, every degree of cabin temperature takes away from your driving range. We set the temperature at 65 and bundle up.

turn off the heater and you will get back 15 of that 20

coqui said:

Are you using "Eco" mode or "D" mode? Recommend staying in "Eco" mode.
Also, try to keep the "bubble" indicator on the top dash as close to center as possible (single bubble lit); refrain from lead-foot driving.
That should get you your full range. Today my commute was in 24F weather, no problem, but tomorrow's supposed to be quite a bit colder, so, we'll see.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply
I was driving in the Eco mode. I only drive in that mode.
I had the bubble indicator to either one to two lit - I do not have lead-foot driving and I most coast.
I was also intrigued with the noise the Leaf made.....

Raza

smkettner said:

Raza said:

I started with 90 miles range and by the time I was done driving driving 6 miles, it was down to 70 miles!!

Click to expand...

So 6 miles cost you 20. Don't use that to project 30 miles total range. The GOM is already making the adjustment. Although is may still come in a little lower, don't use the drop to make your own estimate. It is not a state of charge meter.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply!

I agree with you. But it has been spot on so far. It was the first time that it went so low... and coincidentally driving under 32 for the first time!!

So that concerns me

Raza

sproqitman said:

A Seattle winter probably doesn't count to someone in the Midwest or Northeast, but here's what we learned back in Jan/Feb of last year:
(1) Preheat in the morning before unplugging for 5-10 minutes: brings the fluid in the heat exchanger up to temperature, so you don't waste battery power.
(2) Use the "defrost + feet" setting on the climate control: that seems to be the most efficient combination, at least in Seattle.
(3) Wear a sweater and gloves: an electric car isn't like a gas car. A gasoline engine wastes 80% of the energy it produces, so heat is "free". In an electric, every degree of cabin temperature takes away from your driving range. We set the temperature at 65 and bundle up.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply!!
1. I did not preheat the car prior to driving. You brought up a good point. I want to have your and OTHERS views as if this has helped in the driving range to preheat the car or not..... and how much has it helped. How long to preheat for 30, 20 and 10 F weather out there
2. My climate control was off. I do not use it. I have been only using the steering wheel warmer and seat warmer for the last month or so.

So, again, the climate control was off. I am concerned about the noise it made even above 30 mph today..

Raza

DaveinOlyWA said:

turn off the heater and you will get back 15 of that 20

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply! I did note that when I bought the Leaf that if I turn on the climate control, driving range drops by more than 10%. However, I noted that if I have steering wheel and car seats heater on, there is almost no driving range loss.

For today, I was concerned about the drop as the climate control was OFF!!! and I was not driving with a heavy foot... and also there was a driving noise that you hear below 20 mph normally - but today, I was hearing at even 40mph

Raza said:

Hi
Today was the first cold day here... well not really but the first time that I drove the fully charged Leaf while the temperature was 25 F. I started with 90 miles range and by the time I was done driving driving 6 miles, it was down to 70 miles!! Also, the car made a wierd sound even at 40 mph.... kinda sound that 2012 makes while one is going under 30 mph..... Any one had similar experiences or tips to increase efficiency in cold weather.... I am concerned as here the temperatue can easily go down to 10 F in January!!

Raza
Maryland, USA

Click to expand...

I've driven the Leaf in 10 F avg. weather (was 3 F when we started, 15 F at end of trip). I still got more than 60 miles with the heater on. Battery at start was only 85% (and 6% at end) but the car was pre-heated and we had some elevation loss. I haven't found any large difference in range between say 30 F and 15 F.

The motor whine was more pronounced at 3 F though. It went away after a while, when it got warmer.

Raza said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

turn off the heater and you will get back 15 of that 20

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply! I did note that when I bought the Leaf that if I turn on the climate control, driving range drops by more than 10%. However, I noted that if I have steering wheel and car seats heater on, there is almost no driving range loss.

For today, I was concerned about the drop as the climate control was OFF!!! and I was not driving with a heavy foot... and also there was a driving noise that you hear below 20 mph normally - but today, I was hearing at even 40mph

Click to expand...

ya, i know it sounds bad to turn off the heat when its that cold but i did it and survived. i also installed aftermarket seat heaters so that helped. also have a small personal 12 volt heater (draws 168 watts. does not even move the power gauge) and a defrosting fan (used by truckers. all these were experiments to combat the HUGE defrost issues common in Pacific Northwest Winters where humidy is frequently 99%

as far as the big range drop. that is the GOM at its best. it will give you an estimated range based on the last few miles you drove the night before. if you live at the bottom of a hill or just at a lower elevation, expect to lose a big chunk of estimated range quickly. but after that it should level off

jkirkebo said:

Raza said:

Hi
Today was the first cold day here... well not really but the first time that I drove the fully charged Leaf while the temperature was 25 F. I started with 90 miles range and by the time I was done driving driving 6 miles, it was down to 70 miles!! Also, the car made a wierd sound even at 40 mph.... kinda sound that 2012 makes while one is going under 30 mph..... Any one had similar experiences or tips to increase efficiency in cold weather.... I am concerned as here the temperatue can easily go down to 10 F in January!!

Raza
Maryland, USA

Click to expand...

I've driven the Leaf in 10 F avg. weather (was 3 F when we started, 15 F at end of trip). I still got more than 60 miles with the heater on. Battery at start was only 85% (and 6% at end) but the car was pre-heated and we had some elevation loss. I haven't found any large difference in range between say 30 F and 15 F.

The motor whine was more pronounced at 3 F though. It went away after a while, when it got warmer.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply!!
Same here - the motor whine was bugging me for a while.... Now, the question for you that I have is what if you had not pre-heated the car? Have you tried to see what the range would be without pre-heating ??

I did NOT pre-heat the car... I did have the heater (climate control) off during the entire drive....

DaveinOlyWA said:

Raza said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

turn off the heater and you will get back 15 of that 20

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply! I did note that when I bought the Leaf that if I turn on the climate control, driving range drops by more than 10%. However, I noted that if I have steering wheel and car seats heater on, there is almost no driving range loss.

For today, I was concerned about the drop as the climate control was OFF!!! and I was not driving with a heavy foot... and also there was a driving noise that you hear below 20 mph normally - but today, I was hearing at even 40mph

Click to expand...

ya, i know it sounds bad to turn off the heat when its that cold but i did it and survived. i also installed aftermarket seat heaters so that helped. also have a small personal 12 volt heater (draws 168 watts. does not even move the power gauge) and a defrosting fan (used by truckers. all these were experiments to combat the HUGE defrost issues common in Pacific Northwest Winters where humidy is frequently 99%

as far as the big range drop. that is the GOM at its best. it will give you an estimated range based on the last few miles you drove the night before. if you live at the bottom of a hill or just at a lower elevation, expect to lose a big chunk of estimated range quickly. but after that it should level off

Click to expand...

Oh, I have been driving without the heater since I got the car in December. I have the 2012 with the cold package so it has the steering wheel heater and also has the seat warmers that I have been using.

I drove the same route that I have been driving for a month and today was the first time to see the large drop for the same route!!!

I was thinking of getting a small protable heater (that WalMart advertises) but I read somewhere that the cigarette lighter is on a 10 amp and those portable heaters are on 20 to 25 amps. May I ask what is the brand of your portable heater and where you got it from?? How much amps does it draw?

Raza

14F this morning at my house. Left the leaf at home (outside snow covered and plugged in)

took my trusty honda element today , trying to get to 100,000 miles (I am at 99,400!)

wonder how long it will take to drop to 3 battery temp bars ?

where is that battery temp chart anyway?

18F this morning and I still have 4 battery temp bars; also "coqui" sits outside all night. No range problems though, Raza.

Raza said:

1. I did not preheat the car prior to driving. You brought up a good point. I want to have your and OTHERS views as if this has helped in the driving range to preheat the car or not..... and how much has it helped. How long to preheat for 30, 20 and 10 F weather out there

Click to expand...

I can't speak to that cold, but I can offer the following suggestion/data points:

1) As difficult as they are to use, if you have a regular schedule, use the Climate Timer. You set your departure time and the car figures out all on its own what time to start the preheat.

2) The other day when I manually preheated in the low 40's, after just 5 minutes the cabin was pretty toasty (it was a last minute trip and I didn't have time to do much preheating). If you're not currently preheating, then I would just start at say 10 minutes at 30 degrees and fine tune it from there.

As for your sound, you said it sounded like the slow-speed VSP but at higher speeds. That's curious to me because at higher speeds the sound of the wind on the car is louder than the VSP sound anyway, so either the sound you are talking about is louder than the VSP (in which case you should probably take it in to get it looked at) or maybe it's just more windy in your area.

lpickup said:

As for your sound, you said it sounded like the slow-speed VSP but at higher speeds. That's curious to me because at higher speeds the sound of the wind on the car is louder than the VSP sound anyway, so either the sound you are talking about is louder than the VSP (in which case you should probably take it in to get it looked at) or maybe it's just more windy in your area.

Click to expand...

I've certainly heard a sort of "jet whine" from mine recently, around 40-50 mph. It seems to happen when the car is cold, and is definitely louder than wind noise. My ears aren't terribly good, so if I can hear it, it must be real. My uneducated guess has been bearings in the motor or drive train. The sound disappears after I have been driving for a while, so I have imagined that lubricating grease, or whatever, has warmed up and started, er, lubricating better.

Ray

planet4ever said:

lpickup said:

As for your sound, you said it sounded like the slow-speed VSP but at higher speeds. That's curious to me because at higher speeds the sound of the wind on the car is louder than the VSP sound anyway, so either the sound you are talking about is louder than the VSP (in which case you should probably take it in to get it looked at) or maybe it's just more windy in your area.

Click to expand...

I've certainly heard a sort of "jet whine" from mine recently, around 40-50 mph. It seems to happen when the car is cold, and is definitely louder than wind noise. My ears aren't terribly good, so if I can hear it, it must be real. My uneducated guess has been bearings in the motor or drive train. The sound disappears after I have been driving for a while, so I have imagined that lubricating grease, or whatever, has warmed up and started, er, lubricating better.

Ray

Click to expand...

You are likely hearing the inverter or noise that is in the electrical system when the 12V battery is low and charging not a mechanical noise. I can hear this at times depending on electrical loads. All these noises people mention are likely from the inverter, this keeps getting mistakenly reported as an issue with the car.

It hasn't been cold enough to resume experiments but so far (down to the mid 20's) the following has helped a lot in the northwest climate:
1. charge to 80% the night before, set preheat timer early enough in the morning to finish charging right before you need to go (I don't know how much outside temperature effects charging/heating time yet). Using preheating to heat the core of the car, not just the cabin air while also warming the battery while topping off the charge seems to make a sizable difference in range.
2. if having trouble with fogging, dry the car out with several extensive preheats followed by opening all doors and venting all air out of the car once warm and humid... repeat this until no fogg forms inside the car while preheating. having a dry car is key to managing fogging windows without using power defog, which cools and dries the air, which then needs heating again. using power defog and heat together seems to be the biggest range killer.
3. set mode to foot defog and manually turn climate control off (confirm by seeing "climate control off" on the screen, don't hit any buttons after that or it can turn right back on. keep the energy screen up to monitor that nothing is accidentally turned on.
4. Drive in foot defog mode/climate control off from the beginning of the drive until the car gets cold, then use on/off button to turn climate control on with fan set in one of the lower ranges with AC off, power defog off, setting temp to something moderate like 68. toggle the on off button to conserve heat even more when you don't need it.
5. practice hyper milling so that you know how to do it when you have to, it can really help, especially in cold whether. When I need to extend the range, I drive within 2-3 bubbles of the power meter and generally try and maintain 4.0 or greater on the MPkW dash screen. easy acceleration and gentle breaking are key.
6. If range is critical, hit the trip odometer at the beginning of the trip and modulate energy use/driving habits so that the sum of the miles driven and GOM remain above the target destination distance. Over time you can judge what MPkW you need to maintain to go a given distance.
7. do not count on there being much if any range beyond the Very Low Battery Warning in cold whether and or climbing hills.

While using the above techniques I've gone from Silver and down near 3,000 to Platinum ranked at 835 in the region... not that that means much, but the difference in applying the above habits vs not doing so has meant a near doubling of my range vs driving without thought to efficiency with climate control set to auto. Most of us don't need to pay such close attention to habits and max out the range but it's nice to know it's possible to still get 80+ miles out of the car even in the mid 20's. I'll be seeing how this holds as it gets colder, that is if we ever get winter back in the northwest.

coqui said:

18F this morning and I still have 4 battery temp bars; also "coqui" sits outside all night. No range problems though, Raza.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply! Did you pre-heat the car before driving? I am not sure what people mean by pre-heat? Does that mean start the climate control remotely through my phone or does it mean to go outside, start the car up and run the climate control?

Raza