6600+ ft. of climbing / LEAF in the San Bernardino Mountains

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abasile

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
1,922
Location
Arrowbear Lake, CA
We took delivery of our LEAF on 4/20/11 at Fontana Nissan (great dealership, by the way) and are very pleased to report that the LEAF met, and even exceeded, my expectations for mountain performance driving into and around the San Bernardino Mountains east of the Los Angeles area. Initially my plan was simply to drive the LEAF home to the mountains and plug it in. However, with only a bit of extra L1 (120 V) charging to be safe, we ended up driving an additional 24 miles or so that evening on mountain roads, some of them on the steep side.

Here are the highlights of the drive:
- Started out at Fontana Nissan, elev. 1500', with a full charge (12 bars) and a range estimate of 112 miles, in ECO mode.
- To be ultraconservative, took surface streets instead of the 210 freeway east. Due to minor "user error" with the navigation system, drove a bit out of the way, though.
- At 14 miles, reached the intersection of Waterman Avenue and Baseline, elev. 1100', in San Bernardino (below the 210 freeway). This is where we started climbing up to Rim of the World Hwy (CA-18). 11 bars of charge, range estimate of 121 miles.
- At 18 miles, turned off CA-18 onto Old Waterman Canyon Rd., elev. 1800', which saves 1.2 miles vs. staying on CA-18, and is slower and steeper. 10 bars of charge, range estimate of 60 miles.
- At 21 miles, returned to CA-18, elev. 3000'. 9 bars of charge, range estimate of 37 miles.
- While ascending CA-18, I endeavored to hold power usage steady at 20 - 25 kW, maxing out at 30 - 40 kW only occasionally as needed. Generally maintained 40 - 45 mph.
- At 28 miles, approaching Rimforest on CA-18, elev. 5600'. 5 bars of charge, range estimate of 19 miles.
- Continuing along the "Rim" on CA-18, a mixture of ups and downs.
- At 36 miles, along the "Rim" well above the clouds on CA-18, elev. 6100'. 3 bars of charge, range estimate of 20 miles.
- Continuing on CA-18, ascended to 6200' just west of Running Springs and descended to 5900' just east of Running Springs.
- At 41 miles, arrived at home in Arrowbear Lake, elev. 6100'. 3 bars of charge, range estimate of 22 miles.
- "Trickle" charged (L1, 120V) at home for 1.5 hours. 4 bars of charge.
- At 53 miles, reached Church on the Mountain at Lake Arrowhead, elev. 5200'. 3 bars.
- At the church (which isn't even the one we regularly attend), got lots of interest in the car and great questions.
- Trickle charged at the church (during my older son's Awana Bible study) for < 1.5 hours. 4 bars of charge.
- At 65 miles, arrived back at home with 2 bars. No "low battery" warnings.

All in all, we did over 6600' of climbing and over 2000' of descending. My older son rode with me and helped gather data. The LEAF was very, very smooth, seemed to have plenty of available power, and handled quite well on the occasional hairpin turns. Here are a couple of photos:


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Along Rim of the World Highway, elev. 6100' above the marine layer.


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L1 charging at a local church.

Also, as of yesterday we now have an AV charging dock at home, where we have easy walking access to some beautiful, forested trails. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to visit the mountains with your LEAF and charge here. We're "on the way" to Big Bear. Once CA-330 re-opens, the drive up from Fontana Nissan, or perhaps Metro Nissan in Redlands, should be significantly easier.
 
Wow, finally your LEAF is home! Congratulations!

Great write-up and congrats again on your faith in the LEAF being able to handle your driving needs in the mountains.

Yours will be one of the most interesting experiences since you'll be experiencing some of the most significant uphill and downhill drives on a regular basis. I'll be interested in hearing about the amount of regen you get on downhills and whether it is better for you to start your downhill journeys with less than a full charge.


Congrats again and cheers!
 
Boomer, thank you for the kind reply. As others have observed, I noticed that the state of charge did not have to drop very far before I was able to pick up a good amount of regen. I will normally be charging to 80%, though, so I don't expect much limitation on regen unless the pack temperature is high which I haven't yet observed. (Even after coming up the mountain, the temperature gauge was below the halfway point.) Going down Kuffel Canyon on our way to Lake Arrowhead, where the speed limit is 30 and there are a few hairpin turns, regen almost maxed out at 30 kW. We actually went from three bars to four bars on that descent.

Based on my experience thus far, it seems that we have the potential for very good overall efficiency driving around our local mountain communities. We haven't yet driven the LEAF back "down the hill". It won't be long, though.
 
cdub said:
Are going to drive it in the snow too? That'll be interesting to read about.
Yes, it will get driven in the snow, but not as much as I'd like. I actually enjoy snow driving, especially when I can do a little "drifting". ;-)

As we really don't like driving with tire chains/cables (and usually find them unnecessary with FWD and decent tires), we will mostly drive our AWD car whenever chains are required, since the California Highway Patrol doesn't often require chains if you have AWD. Still, I do anticipate chaining up the LEAF occasionally, and I'll also drive it on snow-covered neighborhood streets without chains when appropriate. The good thing is, our roads are plowed reasonably expeditiously and chain restrictions don't remain in place for too long after each storm.
 
mwalsh said:
Good news! I remember the discussion on the issue, and am really glad it worked out! Especially since none of us actually got around to duplicating the scenario for you as we'd promised. :oops:
No worries; I'll probably wind up with the dubious honor of "dirtiest LEAF exterior". :lol:
 
abasile said:
cdub said:
Are going to drive it in the snow too? That'll be interesting to read about.
Yes, it will get driven in the snow, but not as much as I'd like. I actually enjoy snow driving, especially when I can do a little "drifting". ;-)

As we really don't like driving with tire chains/cables (and usually find them unnecessary with FWD and decent tires), we will mostly drive our AWD car whenever chains are required, since the California Highway Patrol doesn't often require chains if you have AWD. Still, I do anticipate chaining up the LEAF occasionally, and I'll also drive it on snow-covered neighborhood streets without chains when appropriate. The good thing is, our roads are plowed reasonably expeditiously and chain restrictions don't remain in place for too long after each storm.
Be interesting to hear more. With the fine, predictable torque control of an electric car, you may find it does pretty well in the snow. Torque variations / surges from shifting, the power curve of a gas engine and throttle response tend the break the tires loose from the snow in a gas car. The low rolling resistance tires on the EV may have a little less grip on the snow. I'd guess the fine, preditable control of the torque will more than offset that. You can also put it in ECO mode to reduce the power in snow and make it less likely that you'll break loose. Once you get used to the car, just careful control of accelerator will do better than ECO vs. Drive mode. ECO mode should be helpful for those who are less familiar with an EV or snow driving, though driving in the snow is not something you want to do if you don't know how, or don't want to visit the ditch!
 
ElectricVehicle said:
With the fine, predictable torque control of an electric car, you may find it does pretty well in the snow.
I agree. I have found that to be true with the Prius. We also have Kumho Solus KR21 all season tires on the Prius, which seem to do quite well in the snow and wear much longer, and we've hardly noticed any difference in gas mileage compared to the stock Yokohama tires that we very quickly wore out. I might try the same Kumhos on the LEAF next winter if the stock tires wear out before then (mainly from shoulder wear on the curvy roads).

Also, for anyone else who might be reading, when driving in snow or on ice, if in doubt, drive more slowly than you think you need to! We see plenty of mountain visitors getting into trouble because they attempt to continue their usual driving habits when the conditions don't support it.
 
Today we drove our LEAF from here (Arrowbear Lake, elev. 6100') to Big Bear Lake (elev. 6800') and Fawnskin. There is a 7100' "pass" along the way, and plenty of ups and downs. My wife did most of the driving; this was her first time driving the LEAF. We stopped to eat out, shop, and hike a favored trail (Cougar Crest). Temperatures were in the 40s and 50s, and our car is always parked and charged outdoors in the "cold". (Last night the temperature was down near 40.)

We started out with 75% SOC according to Carwings, drove a total of 38 miles in ECO mode, and ended up with 25% SOC. That doesn't seem too bad, considering that my wife was just getting a feel for the car and wasn't as efficient as she could have been. Among other things, she needed to learn to coast/glide effectively, rather than completely letting up on the accelerator and allowing the car to do more regenerative braking than warranted. I'm also assuming that our battery capacity was reduced due to the cold. Also, when we took delivery on 4/20/11, we were told by Fontana that the car has the latest firmware.

In any case, the drive was quite enjoyable without the noise of an internal combustion engine and the views of snow on the San Bernardino Ridge were awesome. Both my wife and I truly appreciate the car. Her only complaint had to do with placement of the instrumentation; she likes the layout of the third-generation Prius better.
 
My wife just returned from another drive to Big Bear (to shop at a farmers market), with sunny weather and the temperature around 55 F. Prior to her departure, we charged the car to 80%. The round trip was 40 miles, typically at 30-40 mph most of the way, with a total of ~1600' of climbing. When my wife arrived back at home, the car indicated four bars of charge and three hours required to charge back up to 80%. Also, the average efficiency over the 220 miles we have driven the car, as reported by the car, went up to 4.1 miles/kWh (includes our initial drive up the mountain). We have not used the heater while driving at all, and have only used the defogger sparingly.

So, as I had anticipated, we seem to be doing pretty decently in terms of efficiency driving around the San Bernardino Mountains. Tomorrow we plan on making a couple of round trips to/from the Lake Arrowhead area.
 
Congratulations on your new LEAF and thanks for posting such detail about your mountainous experiences. I'm sure it'll help some people alleviate their Range Anxiety(tm) over their LEAF orders. And yes, we''re all envious of your beautiful mountain home too!

One other thing...based on your order date vs mine, I think you're driving my car... :mrgreen:
Oh well...maybe the blue will be a shade or two darker in July when I (hopefully) take delivery.
 
ahagge said:
Congratulations on your new LEAF and thanks for posting such detail about your mountainous experiences. I'm sure it'll help some people alleviate their Range Anxiety(tm) over their LEAF orders.
Likewise, I am very thankful for those who had earlier LEAF deliveries and posted about their mountain climbs (sparky, Randy3, Long4Leaf). Without the data they gathered, I could not have had the confidence to go through with our LEAF purchase.

ahagge said:
And yes, we''re all envious of your beautiful mountain home too!
I do thank God for allowing us to live the life that we do. As I mentioned, I would like to offer the use of our EVSE to LEAF owners desiring to visit the mountains. One can hike for hours on the trails accessible from our modest neighborhood of mostly cabins and small homes.

ahagge said:
One other thing...based on your order date vs mine, I think you're driving my car... :mrgreen:
Oh well...maybe the blue will be a shade or two darker in July when I (hopefully) take delivery.
Yes, I was surprised to be assigned a car so early. Knowing that many who ordered earlier are still waiting, we are doing our best to appreciate the car. I hope you (and others) get yours sooner than expected.
 
Yesterday evening we drove the LEAF back home to the mountain from tbleakne's house in Claremont, CA, a total of 56 miles that included an unexpected detour resulting in additional descending and climbing.

The first 18 miles were principally on Baseline Rd. to Fontana Nissan, where we charged for about an hour, back up to 100%, and had the pleasure of meeting 'hill' and his wife while they were charging their LEAF. Over that initial 18 miles, we lost three bars of charge and gained a net of 300 feet in elevation.

Leaving Fontana Nissan, we decided to take the 210 freeway east to Waterman Ave. (CA 18) rather than surface streets. Indeed, driving gently on that stretch of freeway (a gradual descent) seemed to be only a tad less efficient than driving on surface streets through questionable neighborhoods of San Bernardino, and was certainly a whole lot faster and more pleasant. We still had 11 bars when we exited the freeway and started climbing up 18.

Coming up the mountain, we again used the more scenic and slower Old Waterman Ave. shortcut and overall found that our energy utilization was not much greater than the first drive up. That wasn't bad, since we had an additional person in the car (my wife), a full load of luggage, and quite a few groceries from Trader Joe's.

Our little surprise came shortly after passing the mountain community of Rimforest (elev. 5600'). A car accident had taken place that caused a temporary closure of the highway, as someone was apparently injured and needed to be airlifted off the mountain. Our options were to either sit and wait for the accident be cleared, or take a detour down to the shores of Lake Arrowhead (elev. 5100') via Daley Canyon and then up Kuffel Canyon. With four full bars of charge remaining, we opted for the detour. Still, thanks to regen and slower speeds on the twisty roads down by the lake, we made it all the way back to our home neighborhood with barely three bars of charge, which dropped to two bars right before we got home (elev. 6100'). So, after the top-off at Fontana Nissan, we climbed a total of 5700' and descended a total of 1100' over 38 miles. The battery temperature gauge had six bars lit.

Once we are able to make use of CA 330 (currently undergoing major repairs), our drive up the mountain will be shorter, with fewer elevation changes. I intend to report back then.

Also, while I am not completely sure about this, it appears that efficiency suffers whenever one draws power from the battery at a rate greater than roughly 25 or 30 kW. When climbing, it seems best if one can keep the power draw below 25 kW most of the time.

Finally, I would note that in our earlier drive down to Claremont, we charged to an SOC of roughly 85%. Going down the mountain, the car often limited regen to ~ 8kW, necessitating some use of friction braking. Next time we will try a lower starting SOC, particularly as it only took about five bars to drive all the way from our home to Claremont (besides the altitude change, thanks to being "stuck" behind a very slow truck on the 210 freeway).
 
My wife, father-in-law, and I have all been enjoying driving our LEAF around the San Bernardino Mountains. Besides routine chores, we've been using the LEAF to get to nearby trailheads:

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The start of a dirt Forest Service road (2N19). Great place for a walk.


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At 7200' altitude, the end of the pavement east of Green Valley Lake. Timber is being harvested from trees killed by a recent forest fire.


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In our driveway this morning, with a dusting of May snow!


We have truly been blessed with a beautiful planet. To me, it reflects the splendor of the Creator of the universe. The LEAF makes it even easier to enjoy; driving scenic roads in silence is sublime.
 
abasile, I enjoyed reading your posts and am learning a lot! I've wondered about climbing performance, and your drives are a great test. My ICE car has made that mountain climb a few times and worked hard getting up the grade. (My lead foot having something to do with that!) Great to know the Leaf had no problem with the discharge demands, heat, etc. Thanks also for the photos. I can imagine the silent cruising through the beautiful landscape up there. Wahoo!!!
 
OilFreedom said:
My ICE car has made that mountain climb a few times and worked hard getting up the grade. (My lead foot having something to do with that!)
Keep in mind that we drove at a moderate speed (40-45mph) up the mountain. While we could have maintained 55mph much of the way up, I did not want to take chances with the range due to obtaining less efficiency. Also, since we decided to purchase rather than lease the car, I'm inclined to avoid continuously maintaining higher discharge rates which could reduce the life of the battery pack. Given the large size of the pack, this might not actually add much stress, but I'd rather play it safe and hopefully have the pack last for many years.

In past years, I derived pleasure from driving a bit on the aggressive side. Even now, the LEAF is fun to drive when you have to get somewhere quickly. However, one can also derive pleasure from the successful application of efficiency/hypermiling techniques to get the most out of a car like this. It can become a game. Just make sure to be courteous and allow faster traffic to pass if appropriate.

Also, I forgot to mention that in our drive up Green Valley Lake Rd. yesterday (> 1200' of climbing), the battery temperature gauge never got above four bars. The outside temperature was in the low to mid 30s and we used the climate control some.
 
abasile said:
Also, while I am not completely sure about this, it appears that efficiency suffers whenever one draws power from the battery at a rate greater than roughly 25 or 30 kW. When climbing, it seems best if one can keep the power draw below 25 kW most of the time.
Is that 3 circles on the dash ? Definitely lower power used equals better efficiency. On flat roads I try to use one or 2 circles only. Accelerating up the hill can be quite taxing - 6 or 7 circles (~ 50 KW). I've been able to maintain 40 mph up the hill using 3 or 4 circles.
 
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