Has anyone replaced the main battery?

We travel about 45 miles a day but sometimes we need to Travel into town for dinner and a show, pushing our mileage to about 55. With us down a bar, and 65 miles showing at 100% charge, we can't make it.
At full charge we are down only one bar, and at 45k miles odometer we will not qualify for the lawsuit settlement.
We are willing to spend money on a new 2015 battery but no dealer around here seems to have any clue how to do it!
Had anyone in the Pacific Northwest changed out their 2011 battery?

Thanks for helping!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=453788#p453788
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=14102

First off, you should stop depending on the GOM (guess-o-meter) and use Leaf Spy. I'm typing on a tablet and won't able to type and cite more until I return to a computer.

You are likely leaving a bunch of unused battery capacity on the table.

Please answer http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11591&p=275421#p275421 in this thread. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=433439#p433439 Is an example of an exchange we may need to have.

Please study the 11 bar range ("Use this 82% chart for a battery that has 11 of 12 capacity bar segments") chart further down at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295.

It will NOT be economical to keep spending $5500+ each time you reach 11 capacity bars.

SeattleLeaf91 said:

We travel about 45 miles a day but sometimes we need to Travel into town for dinner and a show, pushing our mileage to about 55. With us down a bar, and 65 miles showing at 100% charge, we can't make it.
At full charge we are down only one bar, and at 45k miles odometer we will not qualify for the lawsuit settlement.
We are willing to spend money on a new 2015 battery but no dealer around here seems to have any clue how to do it!
Had anyone in the Pacific Northwest changed out their 2011 battery?

Thanks for helping!

Click to expand...

I have an idea: use your other car for that one trip! You do you have another (ICE) car, right?

cwerdna said:

It will NOT be economical to keep spending $5500+ each time you reach 11 capacity bars.

Click to expand...

On this note, see my responses starting at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=435921#p435921 on why I felt a 2011 Leaf w/its battery replaced for free under the capacity warranty wasn't worth $8,990.

Due to Leaf's poor resale value, it seems like a bad idea to even spend $5500+ even once to replace its battery, let alone multiple times.

Leaf Spy (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285) will give you a MUCH better idea of your battery's state of charge, what adjustments you need to make while driving to make it to your destination and ride around near the bottom of your battery w/a lot less anxiety.

Also, have you used Plugshare to see if there are places you can stop to charge at along the way? If you have the CHAdeMO inlet (DC fast charge port on the left), your state has a decent DC FC network along I-5 and a few other highways: http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/WAelectrichighways.htm.

cwerdna said:

Due to Leaf's poor resale value, it seems like a bad idea to even spend $5500+ even once to replace its battery, let alone multiple times.

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Presumably someone paying to replace the battery doesn't plan to sell the car. I may very well replace my battery in 2 years if the price comes down a little or I can get a 30 kwh battery.

Stoaty said:

cwerdna said:

Due to Leaf's poor resale value, it seems like a bad idea to even spend $5500+ even once to replace its battery, let alone multiple times.

Click to expand...

Presumably someone paying to replace the battery doesn't plan to sell the car. I may very well replace my battery in 2 years if the price comes down a little or I can get a 30 kwh battery.

Click to expand...

Sure, but one has to really question whether spending $5500+ the first time or on a recurring basis is worth it, given the minimal resale of the car.

What if it were an ICEV in the above case (same $5500+ costs, possibly recurring and minimal resale value)? The vast majority of folks will stop doing that or won't even do it the first time around.

I'd say cars tend to in the end have one of these scenarios happen to them, and in some cases, the resale value does matter:
- traded in - resale value matters
- sold - resale value matters
- totaled or stolen and insurance pays - resale value matters
- given to someone
- totaled and no insurance coverage - too bad, resale value may matter a bit
- driven until catastrophically expensive repair/something not worth it comes up - resale value may matter
- driven until dead and value is $0

cwerdna said:

Sure, but one has to really question whether spending $5500+ the first time or on a recurring basis is worth it, given the minimal resale of the car.

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If I can get another 7 years out of a new battery, the money would be well spent. That is a lot cheaper than buying a new Leaf.

I will buy the 11 bar leaf with fast charge port, for $5000 add your $ 5500 buy a 13 with the better 6.6K charger and a better battery . I am sure I could drive a 85% leaf for a long time I drove a 3 bar looser for a year. work with leaf spy and know your car and you can learn to work with the car, or take my offer.

I agree that replacing the battery whenever it drops to 11 bars isn't economically (or environmentally) wise. The advice about Leafspy and knowing their true range is also sound as is considering recharging options at their destination or en route. By their statement, the 55 mile distance presumably is one way otherwise even a new Leaf wouldn't work without charging while their existing Leaf would work fine as 55 miles roundtrip is within their current range. Assuming it is 55 miles one way, then a new battery certainly isn't the solution.

However, overgeneralizing the car as being a total waste beyond its residual value once the original battery needs replacing. Taking a $25k car (for the SL after incentives) and after 7 or so years doubling it's life for a $6k investment can make good sense. And in the PNW, 7+ years per battery is very plausible, especially for someone with 45 mile per day needs. Many people keep good cars a lot longer than you acknowledge. And people keeping a car for 14 years is far from the rarity you make it out to be. So for a lot of people, the resale value may be a factor, but not such a defining decision point. And hopefully over time, that replacement cost may come down a bit.

I too would be leery of the value of multiple battery changes, especially when we are likely to have much better options 15-21 years from now. Shoot, by then, we might have to discard anything that isn't autonomous.

DarthPuppy said:

However, overgeneralizing the car as being a total waste beyond its residual value once the original battery needs replacing. Taking a $25k car (for the SL after incentives) and after 7 or so years doubling it's life for a $6k investment can make good sense. And in the PNW, 7+ years per battery is very plausible, especially for someone with 45 mile per day needs. Many people keep good cars a lot longer than you acknowledge. And people keeping a car for 14 years is far from the rarity you make it out to be. So for a lot of people, the resale value may be a factor, but not such a defining decision point. And hopefully over time, that replacement cost may come down a bit.

Click to expand...

Re: car age, as a data point that I'm well aware of, the average age of cars in US road is past 11 years (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/07/29/new-car-sales-soaring-but-cars-getting-older-too/30821191/ and http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_26.html_mfd).

But ICEVs don't have range a short as the Leaf and don't lose a significant amount of range autonomy unless they develop a serious problem.

It's slightly questionable whether to spend $6K on a 7 year old Leaf given that the EV system warranty will be gone and there is always the chance of something expensive failing out of warranty like the heater, brake master cylinder or OBC. Example of 2 of these:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21203
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21175
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=452055#p452055
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=450180#p450180

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1127521913945911/ had an '11 Leaf w/only 23K miles that became uneconomical to repair. Some more details at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1127521913945911/?comment_id=1130560733642029&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D, but there are many more comments from her there.

(If you hadn't seen my saga/posts before, I paid $9,325 + tax and license (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=430825#p430825) for a '13 Leaf SV w/premium in July 2015 w/original in service date near end of 6/2013.)

If my slightly past 10 year old Prius needed a $6K repair, I'd probably not do it and sell the car as is, for parts.

SeattleLeaf91 said:

We travel about 45 miles a day but sometimes we need to Travel into town for dinner and a show, pushing our mileage to about 55. With us down a bar, and 65 miles showing at 100% charge, we can't make it.
At full charge we are down only one bar, and at 45k miles odometer we will not qualify for the lawsuit settlement.
We are willing to spend money on a new 2015 battery but no dealer around here seems to have any clue how to do it!
Had anyone in the Pacific Northwest changed out their 2011 battery?

Thanks for helping!

Click to expand...

GOM is worthless not very accurate.

When you say at full charge you are down one bar, that makes me wonder if you are looking at the correct bars for capacity, as it does not depend on what the state of charge is. The Capacity bars are the tiny square bars to the right of the charge bars and do not change based on what the current battery charge is.

If you really are down only one bar, you are correct you are unlikely to meet the warranty mileage of 60k miles.

It is around $6500. You can find the parts on dealer parts websites for about $5500. IIRC, others have reported a invoice showing around $6500 for the job.

I would have to have a lot less capacity than 65 miles or down one bar, in order to pony up for a new battery. But we do have a multi car family so we have another car at our disposal for the rare long trip/road trip.

SeattleLeaf91 said:

...but sometimes we need to Travel into town for dinner and a show, pushing our mileage to about 55. With us down a bar, and 65 miles showing at 100% charge, we can't make it.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, as others have said, replacing the battery is not really cost effective. However, save yourself $5000 and drive to downtown, park at a charging station, pay a few bucks and charge it up during the dinner and show. There are stations shown literally every block in downtown Seattle, but you might have to walk a bit. Certainly many are being used, but with planning, you should be able to find something.

Wow, cwerdna, that sounds like an awesome deal you got in that auction. And you have a good point about the battery replacement taking the car beyond warranty on all the other stuff. I kind of figure that taking the Leaf beyond warranty isn't that much more risk than taking an ICEV beyond warranty. However, it does have a lot of unique aspects that would be rather expensive to repair/replace if they fail and that does warrant some factoring into the analysis.

My thinking though is that after 7 years, if I have taken good care of the car and haven't had problems with those other aspects, then a $6k investment to extend the car for another 7 years may be a bargain. I could sell at the low value that a 7 year old leaf with a heavily degraded battery would fetch. I could then add to that my $6k I didn't invest and attempt to get another car. But I would be getting one where I don't know the history, etc. Would I get one that is better than the Leaf I gave up? Tbh, I won't know until I go check the market at that point. But I doubt I would get something much better than what I could do if I put the money into the battery replacement.

Of course, I should disclose that I keep cars in top shape, so I may not be representative of the general population. Our 2008 Highlander Hybrid still looks practically new after 130k miles.

DarthPuppy said:

Wow, cwerdna, that sounds like an awesome deal you got in that auction.

Click to expand...

Actually, it was the used car dealer that I went thru that got a really great deal at auction. Those Manheim auctions that Leafs come from are only open to licensed dealers.

I fully expected to pay $10K, as that was the target price quoted me. It just so happened he lucked out and picked up the car I have now for $8K + $325 auction fee, so it was sold to me for $9,325 + tax and license. He believes he may have lucked out as other bidders might've not realized the SV also had premium package.

You can get an idea of auction averages at:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=456591#p456591 - for '13
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=456593#p456593 - for '11

These had some Manheim auction figures in GA and WA from last year:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20608
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20660

Again, figure all dealers will have to mark it up some, to cover their overhead, salaries, risks, etc.

YES, ME. I bought the 2011 Leaf in November, 2014 with 2 bars missing, knowing that I could replace the battery at a reasonable cost when the range became untenable. After about 18 months, the original battery had lost 3 bars and was showing around 62 at full charge (D, not ECO). Since I found myself borrowing my wife's car a few days a month due to range anxiety, I bit the bullet. Financed by Nissan at about 100/month for five years, the new 2015 battery gave me a 50% range increase. In ECO mode, my starting range actually showed 116 miles at one point.

With the warranty, I am assured that for the life of this loan, I will keep at least 9 bars (hopefully, with this lizard battery, and intelligent charging practices, I'll keep from losing any bars for years).

I am quite happy with Regal Nissan in Roswell, GA, and with the Leaf.

^^^
Why do you care so much about what the stupid GOM says? If you had range anxiety, you really should've gotten something like Leaf Spy so that you have more visibility as to what's going on and what efficiency (in miles/kWh) you'd need to drive at to make it to your destination.

steverosen13 said:

YES, ME. I bought the 2011 Leaf in November, 2014 with 2 bars missing, knowing that I could replace the battery at a reasonable cost when the range became untenable. After about 18 months, the original battery had lost 3 bars and was showing around 62 at full charge (D, not ECO). Since I found myself borrowing my wife's car a few days a month due to range anxiety, I bit the bullet. Financed by Nissan at about 100/month for five years, the new 2015 battery gave me a 50% range increase. In ECO mode, my starting range actually showed 116 miles at one point.

With the warranty, I am assured that for the life of this loan, I will keep at least 9 bars (hopefully, with this lizard battery, and intelligent charging practices, I'll keep from losing any bars for years).

I am quite happy with Regal Nissan in Roswell, GA, and with the Leaf.

Click to expand...

Too bad you couldn't keep driving it for another year, if you dropped that 4th bar, you could have had a free battery replacement! Glad you are happy with your car/battery replacement.