LeafMuranoDriver
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 May 2015
Leaf Number: 323189
Location: Los Angeles, CA

How can you use battery capacity without driving? Can this improve battery capacity?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:53 am

Might be a strange question but... can you use the battery without putting miles on the car?

Problem solved!
Last edited by LeafMuranoDriver on Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC
Mfg: Jan. '15 // Pur: May '15
Best: 6/27/15 - 1,416 Miles - 292 GIDs - 63.11 Ahr - 22.6 kWh - 100% SOH - 97.2% Hx - 4 QC, 29 L2
Worst: 12/12/15 - 4,616 Miles - 259 GIDs - 55.02 Ahr - 20.1 kWh - 99% SOH - 82.8% Hx - 17 QC, 96 L2

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10611
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Can you use battery capacity without driving?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:31 pm

Leaf battery capacity degradation is the function of two things: Time and cycles. By not driving it, you are cutting down on battery charge cycles but not on battery age, so you will still have some degradation. Not much you can do about it but keep the battery as cool as possible...

FYI, my experience with the new Lizard battery indicates that this is still the case and that temperature is still a consideration...
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

minispeed
Posts: 681
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2014
Location: Ancaster, ON

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:42 pm

I'd say the best way is to find the interior temp sensor, put an ice pack around it and blast the defrost on (heat and A/C going) at the highest heat setting. If you just turn the heat on and it's not that cold the power used will drop off quickly. Also cracking the windows will probably delay the sensor warming up but you might not want to leave the car like that.
2015 White SV, after one month 292 GIDS
Best 1 charge drive, 229km (143miles)

LeafMuranoDriver
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 May 2015
Leaf Number: 323189
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:27 pm

I did an hour long test last night... left the car on, fan full blast, heat, and temp at 75. The car lost 7% of capacity. I set it to 75 because I wasn't sure if 90 would be too hot for something in the car but probably not if the windows are all the way down when it hits 50F or less outside.

I didn't realize, even though the heat is on, the temp of 90 vs. 75, uses about 3x as much power. I may try another hour long test with heat on at 90 to compare.

The car is parked in a locked garage so I don't have to worry about anybody seeing it on or messing with it.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC
Mfg: Jan. '15 // Pur: May '15
Best: 6/27/15 - 1,416 Miles - 292 GIDs - 63.11 Ahr - 22.6 kWh - 100% SOH - 97.2% Hx - 4 QC, 29 L2
Worst: 12/12/15 - 4,616 Miles - 259 GIDs - 55.02 Ahr - 20.1 kWh - 99% SOH - 82.8% Hx - 17 QC, 96 L2

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 4912
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:29 pm

As long as it's reasonably cool, you can just blast the heater. Open all the windows (and hatch if possible), set the heat to 90F, fan at max. That's your best bet for putting any appreciable load on the main pack without driving.

I've run it like this for a few hours, as a way to keep my garage warm when I was doing some painting.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeafMuranoDriver
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 May 2015
Leaf Number: 323189
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:38 am

I did another hour long test with full fan, heat, and temp @ 90. Used 10% of the battery. Nothing was too hot or anything.

I think I found my answer.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC
Mfg: Jan. '15 // Pur: May '15
Best: 6/27/15 - 1,416 Miles - 292 GIDs - 63.11 Ahr - 22.6 kWh - 100% SOH - 97.2% Hx - 4 QC, 29 L2
Worst: 12/12/15 - 4,616 Miles - 259 GIDs - 55.02 Ahr - 20.1 kWh - 99% SOH - 82.8% Hx - 17 QC, 96 L2

BrockWI
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:56 am

This is just my 2 cents, but cycling the battery is using the battery, whether it is to run the heater or to move the car. I would advise against running the heater to use up battery power, your just adding cycles or "miles" to the battery for no useful reason.

As Tom T said, it is time and cycles that degrade a battery. I would add to that, leaving the battery at a high state of charge isn't the best for the battery as well. So if your not using the car that much just don't top it off when your done.

I find the biggest change I see in capacity or Hx is when I run the battery down pretty low, to LBW or VLBW. But honestly I don't think that "helps" the battery it just gives the car a better picture of the actual battery capacity and adjusts accordingly.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 180k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@70k miles - 56.56Ahr - 86 SOH - 82.55 Hx - 245 GID

LeafMuranoDriver
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 May 2015
Leaf Number: 323189
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:58 pm

BrockWI wrote:This is just my 2 cents, but cycling the battery is using the battery, whether it is to run the heater or to move the car. I would advise against running the heater to use up battery power, your just adding cycles or "miles" to the battery for no useful reason.

As Tom T said, it is time and cycles that degrade a battery. I would add to that, leaving the battery at a high state of charge isn't the best for the battery as well. So if your not using the car that much just don't top it off when your done.

I find the biggest change I see in capacity or Hx is when I run the battery down pretty low, to LBW or VLBW. But honestly I don't think that "helps" the battery it just gives the car a better picture of the actual battery capacity and adjusts accordingly.

I wouldn't say it's "for no useful reason". By cycling the battery more this past week, my stats have increased 3%. I need as much usable capacity on the weekends as possible and lately I can really tell the difference compared to a few months ago.

I'm not exactly sure how to ask this...
So if I go back to only charging 1-2 times per week and my stats stay at my low (down 10-13%), will my usable capacity stay the same for longer vs. higher usable capacity in the near term and lower in the long term?
Say 1 year from now, if I cycle my battery more (and the stats keep going back up and stay at a reasonable level), will I have more usable capacity than if I don't?
How about 2 years? I can imagine 2-3 years, the car would have less usable capacity from time degradation but maybe not 1 year.

I'm leasing and do not plan to buy the car so I'd rather have more usable capacity in the near term vs. long term.

I usually charge from around 30% and rarely hit LBW or VLBW. I never let the car sit at more than 80-100% for more than 1-3 hours.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC
Mfg: Jan. '15 // Pur: May '15
Best: 6/27/15 - 1,416 Miles - 292 GIDs - 63.11 Ahr - 22.6 kWh - 100% SOH - 97.2% Hx - 4 QC, 29 L2
Worst: 12/12/15 - 4,616 Miles - 259 GIDs - 55.02 Ahr - 20.1 kWh - 99% SOH - 82.8% Hx - 17 QC, 96 L2

knightmb
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:31 pm

I use mine to ferry power from QC and dump it into my solar banks. It's like getting $2 every time because the QC is free and the nearest station is only 3 miles away. Helps to keep down the electric bills. :mrgreen:

BrockWI
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: How can you use battery capacity without driving?

Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:08 pm

I could be wrong, but I believe all your doing is updating your battery stats, your not actually increasing the capacity of the battery by doing this, your letting the car get a better estimate of what is in the battery and what the battery can do. I guess it might add a tiny bit of capacity by exercising it, but I would but it is less than .5 kWh or more likely .250 kWh, going 2 miles an hour slower will give you more than that over the a full charge.

knightmb, well that's understandable and I have to admit I have done the same thing, but with a free L2 EVSE and charged our house bank :)
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 180k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@70k miles - 56.56Ahr - 86 SOH - 82.55 Hx - 245 GID

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”