Lost 5th bar today. Still cruisin'

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TickTock

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
1,701
Location
Queen Creek, Arizona
Still working for me. My commute is 49 miles round trip and I usually still have 7-10 miles left when I get home.

Purchased: May 2011
ODO: 44241
100% gids: 164
Ah: 37.65
SOH: 57%
Hx: 36.0

bar5b.jpg
bar5.jpg
 
These are good numbers, Thanks! my commute is 40 miles RT so that's gives me probably another Year or so. Currently at 35K Miles with 2 Bars gone. But with cooler weather here I should see around 40K miles with 3 Bars gone.

What's your average speeds, are they all 49 miles Highway and is it mainly flat roads with no hills? And are you mainly in ECO mode now?


Fred
 
I did have to change my route a few months ago to avoid the freeway. Freeway was also a mile longer each way. Now I take the surface streets cruising at 49mph until I see the next light and then adjusting up or down. I'd be a bit more alarmed if I didn't have my CANary, though. I am often at --- on the GOM when I get home (as I was today) even though I have over 5 easy miles remaining.
 
The capacity warranty doesn't guarantee you a new battery, just a battery with 9 bars, and I'd think the longer you hold out the greater probability of getting a refurbished battery instead of a new one, as reconditioned batteries become available from non-warranty replacements, lease returns, and so on. Plus if you're close to the end of the period the warranty covers Nissan might figure they could stick you in a used battery and have less chance of having to do a second replacement before the 5yrs/60k miles are up.

Are you not at all concerned about these things, or am I missing something? Has Nissan announced new batteries for all warranty replacements? I admit I haven't followed the forum judiciously since I got my Rav, but my thinking is the sooner the better for my warranty replacement, assuming it happens (I'm 40 months and 34k miles in with 73% SOH / barely hanging on to bar 10 - fingers crossed.)
 
This is kind of facinating! I wonder what will happen when your Hx goes to zero! :shock:

Can you look through your logs to see when CAR CAN msg 260 byte 0 drops from 6E? What SOC/Gids does that happen at?
 
fooljoe said:
The capacity warranty doesn't guarantee you a new battery, just a battery with 9 bars, and I'd think the longer you hold out the greater probability of getting a refurbished battery instead of a new one, as reconditioned batteries become available from non-warranty replacements, lease returns, and so on. Plus if you're close to the end of the period the warranty covers Nissan might figure they could stick you in a used battery and have less chance of having to do a second replacement before the 5yrs/60k miles are up.

Are you not at all concerned about these things, or am I missing something? Has Nissan announced new batteries for all warranty replacements? I admit I haven't followed the forum judiciously since I got my Rav, but my thinking is the sooner the better for my warranty replacement, assuming it happens (I'm 40 months and 34k miles in with 73% SOH / barely hanging on to bar 10 - fingers crossed.)

those are some good points! my instinct would also be to not push it too long... more and more used Leaf's coming off of Leases.
 
TickTock said:
Still working for me. My commute is 49 miles round trip and I usually still have 7-10 miles left when I get home.
I'm amazed at how much range you're getting. By 7-10 miles left - do you mean that you get home some where between LBW and VLBW?

I drove 50 miles today, got to LBW as I pulled into the garage. 4.2 mi/kWh, 48 GID, 27.1% SOC, 51.9 AHr, 6 mi on the GOM.

What do your Cell Pair voltages look like fully charged and at LBW/VLBW? Are the cells still mostly losing capacity at the same rate?
 
ticktock's efficiency is really good. At most, when I had 4 bars lost I could push to ~53 miles to below VLBW (just before turtle). But its Texas and that means highways - everywhere. There isn't much in the way to avoid them, especially if you live out in the boonies like me. That and the very cold winter we had last year (ok, I realized 14F isn't cold for some people, but it broke lots of records and it was those temps for awhile) with a energy hog heater and a 45 min commute = even worse on range for me.

Glad you can keep going to see the severe battery wear and how the car performs. With resistance picking up with low Hx, are you noticing longer charging times? I know I saw a different from the 4 bars, but 5 must have an appreciable difference.

I wonder if Hx values can affect the available power - could you loose a bubble of acceleration?
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
Are you not at all concerned about these things, or am I missing something? Has Nissan announced new batteries for all warranty replacements? I admit I haven't followed the forum judiciously since I got my Rav, but my thinking is the sooner the better for my warranty replacement, assuming it happens (I'm 40 months and 34k miles in with 73% SOH / barely hanging on to bar 10 - fingers crossed.)

those are some good points! my instinct would also be to not push it too long... more and more used Leaf's coming off of Leases.

I've thought about the same thing, but I'm not inclined to think the leased Leafs will affect him (or me for that matter). I think Nissan has come to the conclusion if they don't put "lizard" battery packs in hot climate areas, they will just end up with a bunch of unhappy (out of warranty) owners (again). So the question becomes: what's the supply/availability of "lizard" battery packs going forward?
 
I appreciate TickTock's willingness to live with such low battery capacity in the name of science! It'll be very interesting to continue to see how this battery ages, provided range isn't an issue and the 5 years / 60K miles thresholds aren't passed.

As long as TickTock is willing to tolerate the worst-case scenario of a warranty replacement battery having only nine bars, he should be fine. If he intends to keep the car for many years, this might mean having to spend $6K on another replacement pack a couple of years sooner than otherwise. This might be somewhat painful, but doesn't seem like a huge risk.

Also, I don't necessarily expect the failure mode of a longer lived cool-climate LEAF battery to match that of a shorter-lived hot-climate battery. Practically speaking, the behavior of my own LEAF's battery at give or take ten years and seven capacity bars might not match the current behavior of TickTock's battery.
 
Stanton said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
Are you not at all concerned about these things, or am I missing something? Has Nissan announced new batteries for all warranty replacements? I admit I haven't followed the forum judiciously since I got my Rav, but my thinking is the sooner the better for my warranty replacement, assuming it happens (I'm 40 months and 34k miles in with 73% SOH / barely hanging on to bar 10 - fingers crossed.)

those are some good points! my instinct would also be to not push it too long... more and more used Leaf's coming off of Leases.

I've thought about the same thing, but I'm not inclined to think the leased Leafs will affect him (or me for that matter). I think Nissan has come to the conclusion if they don't put "lizard" battery packs in hot climate areas, they will just end up with a bunch of unhappy (out of warranty) owners (again). So the question becomes: what's the supply/availability of "lizard" battery packs going forward?
Exactly. I did consider the chance I will get a 3 bar pack but the idea that the chances increase with time is pure speculation. I think it is low (if not zero) and on the other side of the balance is the more credible idea that the chances of me getting the lizard pack increases the longer I hold out.
 
The state of health curve looks to be parabolic, with rate of degradation increasing. IIRC, this is typical of Li cells and it's why 70% is usually declared end-of-service. You've fought the good fight. Get your new battery and enjoy ;)
 
Bad news: You have now lost five capacity bars. :cry:
Good news: You still have five more white capacity bars before you get down into the red zone! ;)

Thanks again for educating us on what happens beyond the loss of the fourth capacity bar! Our LEAF seems to be where yours was about two-and-a-half years ago!

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

- What is your approximate SOC % when you arrive home each day?
- At what SOC % do you now get the LBW? (I currently see LBW at around 25%. You must be quite a bit higher!)
- I assume your pack is very well balanced when fully charged. Do you happen to have a plot of the cell voltages as the lowest one passes through 3.712V? (I am thinking your cells are degrading very evenly, but I still suspect that one or two still may not pass CVLI. This may become important to those of us who will not benefit from the capacity warranty.)
 
Nubo said:
The state of health curve looks to be parabolic, with rate of degradation increasing. IIRC, this is typical of Li cells and it's why 70% is usually declared end-of-service. You've fought the good fight. Get your new battery and enjoy ;)
Good eye. Yes, I've noted that too and if it continues I won't make it to the new year. Truth is, I think I am close to replacing. At first, I just wanted to get through the summer, then I decide I would try to see the 5th bar drop, now it is just morbid fascination. :)
 
RegGuheert said:
Thanks again for educating us on what happens beyond the loss of the fourth capacity bar! Our LEAF seems to be where yours was about two-and-a-half years ago!
+1 here. Keep up with the "morbid fascination." Since I have a low-to-no chance of qualifying for a warranty replacement, I am really interested in knowing what happens with the car after the 5th bar goes. If utility doesn't drop off a cliff, and 40-50 miles range is still possible in around-town driving, we might be able to delay purchasing a new battery pack (or replacing the Leaf with something else) for quite awhile longer. Please keep us updated on how it goes as you continue driving with very low capacity.

Thx,
TT
 
Back
Top