2011 Leaf range anxiety

Hello, im abt to buy a 2011 leaf and my daily trip is 64 Miles (32 mils X 2 )

Is it possible without having to charge at my workplace?
Regards

Kevin

If you can charge both at home and at work, then yes, it's easily doable.

If not, then we need more information. Where do you live?

I live in Pittsburgh, and I do 60 miles (30x2) every day on a single charge.

i am from mauritius < (mauritius island , indian ocean) and i think i am the first individual to buy a leaf. only 2 are on the roads here up to now , but r owned by corporates n they wont give me any data.
I have checked , the full charge show only 100 kms, (at least in the showroom.) i suspect they have limited the charge to 80% but i have no proof.
How can i get a better clue on the battery life? the milieage reads nearly 10 000 miles.

Thank You

Kevin

kboojhowon said:

Hello, im abt to buy a 2011 leaf and my daily trip is 64 Miles (32 mils X 2 )

Is it possible without having to charge at my workplace?
Regards

Kevin

Click to expand...

short answer, NO!
that said it could be possible depending on your speed, weather and road conditions. without the ability to charge during the day I'd say that you are bumping at the outer limits of the car's capabilities

my average speed is about 55~60 miles / hour. Roads quite good, flat on average. just got a 3KM uphill ( i guess i could use it downhill to regenerate a bit)

No, you're not going to make it. Could have made it when the battery was new, but not going to make it on a battery that is a couple of years old.

I think there are some very pessimistic views here. You are in a warm country and will not be racing along significant lengths of highway. It will be at your upper end of the range, but if you find you are having difficulty making the round trip at 55mph then you will naturally slow down to extend your range. I'd say there's really something wrong with the car, or the driver's self-control, if you can't make 60 miles if you try.

How much is gas there? And what are the electric rates?

How much battery degradation does this 2011 Leaf have? I would purchase the Leaf spy app. And hook this car up to see how much battery it has left. Where has this 2011Leaf been living for the last three years & how many miles are on it. Can you access the annual battery report for this Leaf? 60 miles a day without charging may be a stretch with a 3 year old battery? I drive 60 miles a day a can't do it, but I drive 65 mph with 2000' elevation gain. You might be able to make it work for a year or two, but I would buy a newer Leaf or get the ability to use a 110 or 220v outlet at work.

Hi Kevin,

I suggest to:

1. Get the VIN and use Carfax or a similar service to see where this car had been and what it's done. Hopefully it's possible to do that for cars outside the US as well?
2. Check whether it's full charge or 80%, if the owner knows anything about the car they should be able to tell you.
3. After you ascertain it's 100%, look at how many white bars light up in the graphic to the right of the range number. That's the quickest indicator of battery degradation, and it's more meaningful than the number of km showing as "range" (we call that number the "Guess-O-Meter", because it's just an estimate based on the last few minutes of driving). I'm talking about the wide white bars in this image:



A brand-new battery has all 12 bars, and the decrease is roughly proportional, but discrete (i.e. one bar each time you hit a threshold). So if, say, there are only 11 bars at 100% charging, it means the battery only has roughly 92% +/- a few percent capacity remaining. If there are only 9 bars, then the battery is about one-quarter degraded. The picture above has 10 bars, which might mean either that it's not fully charged, or that it's lost capacity. Maybe I'm wrong on the exact figures, but you get the idea.

Leaf batteries do poorly in very hot regions (>40C on a regular basis in summer), where some lost nearly half the capacity over a few months; there was a lawsuit and Nissan replaced batteries or compensated, so you shouldn't get this kind of Leaf there. Elsewhere, you shouldn't expect to lose more than one bar per 15k miles, or even more slowly than that.

4. I think if you have 11 bars or more, your daily trip is very doable, although you'd probably want to tone it down a bit to 50-55 MPH rather than 55-60. The Leaf loses range very drastically at higher speeds, see a chart here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. Last but not least, if you mostly charge at home at night you'll need to install a dedicated Level 2 charger. The "trickle" cable that comes with the car and connects to regular household outlets, can only replenish some 60%-70% capacity over 12 hours, so you'll always be on the cusp or worse.

Last but not least, feel free to bargain hard, esp. if they don't provide much information! I wonder how much they are asking for?

Assaf said:

Hi Kevin,

3. After you ascertain it's 100%, look at how many white bars light up in the graphic to the right of the range number. That's the quickest indicator of battery degradation, and it's more meaningful than the number of km showing as "range" (we call that number the "Guess-O-Meter", because it's just an estimate based on the last few minutes of driving). I'm talking about the wide white bars in this image:

A brand-new battery has all 12 bars, and the decrease is roughly proportional, but discrete (i.e. one bar each time you hit a threshold). So if, say, there are only 11 bars at 100% charging, it means the battery only has roughly 92% +/- a few percent capacity remaining. If there are only 9 bars, then the battery is about one-quarter degraded. The picture above has 10 bars, which might mean either that it's not fully charged, or that it's lost capacity. Maybe I'm wrong on the exact figures, but you get the idea.

Click to expand...

Actually it is the thin white bars on the right that indicate battery capacity. The picture shown has all 12 bars. Also, note that when the top bar is lost, that means about a 15% capacity loss. Each subsequent bar represents 6.25% of original capacity.

Thanks for the corrections Stoaty!

I hope all this helps Kevin.

Mauritius, like O'ahu and Kaua'i, seem the ideal-sized islands for the 1st-generation Leaf. Looking at the map, 32 miles seem close to as far as you can get from one end of the island to the other. Given the right settings, an island like this can be "EV-colonized" fairly quickly.

thank u all for ur replies. I live in Mauritius with a max temp of 33 deg in summer and least 15 deg in winter. The leaf has been driving in Japan since 2011 and it has 15,000 Km on the counter, which is roughly 9500 Miles i guess. we are on 230 V here i was planning to get a level 2 charger when i purchase the car but it doesnt seem a good idea to me anymore

Gas is about 2 dollars / liter here bro, you u can guess how much this car was going to save me on fuel as electricity is abt 3.5 KW per dollar.

anyone knows how does the battery react after 70/80 K miles ?/ i hv seen a guy on you tube who has reached 100,000 miles without a single problem but he charges at home, then at his workplace which quite far from his home >50 miles i think.
my next question is , if i carry my trickle charger with me, i ride work 32 miles, i get it charged there , then i can ride back home, right? great but, any idea if this will still be possible when the car reaches 90,000 miles??

I know my questions sound annoying, but this leaf is costing me a fortune(YES, our government lives in a different world, i have to pay 25% TAX of the Leaf's price i will pay in Japan + 15 % Tax on the total as i register it here in Mauritius) and i thought of breaking even quickly be reducing my gas bill in over the coming years.

Thank you Loads

Would a L1 that comes with a car used in Japan work on your island? You should go test that.

If it does, and your voltage is 230, you probably won't need to buy the L2. Our trickle chargers run on 120. Another option, you can get an EVSE upgrade to use on 240, not sure how it would run on 230, or maybe a European L1.

Charging at work will make the car usable for you. Good luck.

kboojhowon said:

.. I live in Mauritius with a max temp of 33 deg in summer and least 15 deg in winter. The leaf has been driving in Japan since 2011 and it has 15,000 Km on the counter, which is roughly 9500 Miles i guess. we are on 230 V here i was planning to get a level 2 charger when i purchase the car but it doesnt seem a good idea to me anymore

Gas is about 2 dollars / liter here bro, you u can guess how much this car was going to save me on fuel as electricity is abt 3.5 KW per dollar.

anyone knows how does the battery react after 70/80 K miles ? ...

Click to expand...

Welcome to MNL.
First person I recall seeing on MNL from Mauritius.

You live in a pretty good climate for a LEAF.
See the link in Stoaty's signature for info on battery degradation model.
Not sure there is a city that matches Mauritius but something in CA on the coast may come close.
Your commute is a bit long without workplace charging especially after the 2011 LEAF battery gets 6 to 7 years old. Battery degradation is not just miles. It is time.

Not sure which EVSE comes with LEAF in Japan but probably same as US. They are 100V and 50 cycle for part of the country and 60 cycle for part.
You will need to have 230V to 100V converter.
But it is probably better to do the $287 evseupgrade.
That will make it work from 100V to 250V, 50 or 60 hZ, with the right connection adapter which you will need to make. They do sell pigtails that you can add the correct C or G type plug. If you have a 20 amp breaker supply available the 2011 LEAF will be able to charge as fast as it can.
A similar 20 amp outlet at work and then you are in good shape assuming employer supports charging.

Please update your Profile location to Mauritius.

Kevin,

I think if you can haul the L1 with you to work and plug in there (even with extension cord...), you should be fine. It's only 50km each way, right?

Good luck navigating it all!

TimLee said:

First person I recall seeing on MNL from Mauritius.

You live in a pretty good climate for a LEAF.
See the link in Stoaty's signature for info on battery degradation model.
Not sure there is a city that matches Mauritius but something in CA on the coast may come close.
Your commute is a bit long without workplace charging especially after the 2011 LEAF battery gets 6 to 7 years old. Battery degradation is not just miles. It is time.

Click to expand...

I disagree with this. Mauritius has a tropical climate. Hot and rainy during the southern hemisphere summer and mild and dry during the southern hemisphere winter. It's in the tropical cyclone belt in the southwest Indian Ocean. A first-generation LEAF battery would decay rapidly in that climate.

I wouldn't go anywhere near a LEAF in a tropical climate until it is proven the battery is more heat-resistant. A 2011 MY LEAF doesn't even come close to that.

Weatherman said:

TimLee said:

First person I recall seeing on MNL from Mauritius.

You live in a pretty good climate for a LEAF.
...

Click to expand...

I disagree with this. Mauritius has a tropical climate. Hot and rainy during the southern hemisphere summer and mild and dry during the southern hemisphere winter. It's in the tropical cyclone belt in the southwest Indian Ocean. A first-generation LEAF battery would decay rapidly in that climate.

I wouldn't go anywhere near a LEAF in a tropical climate until it is proven the battery is more heat-resistant. A 2011 MY LEAF doesn't even come close to that.

Click to expand...

It is worse than Norway, and even Pacific Northwest of USA.
But markedly better than Arizona.
Peak temperature on average for the six summer months is less than 90F.
Not ideal best place, but pretty good.
And hardly any winter range reduction due to cold.
http://www.info-mauritius.com/english/climate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But as I stated it is also time.
The OP will require workplace charging if the vehicle is going to work for ten years / 100,000 miles without battery replacement.

Weatherman said:

I disagree with this. Mauritius has a tropical climate. Hot and rainy during the southern hemisphere summer and mild and dry during the southern hemisphere winter. It's in the tropical cyclone belt in the southwest Indian Ocean. A first-generation LEAF battery would decay rapidly in that climate.

I wouldn't go anywhere near a LEAF in a tropical climate until it is proven the battery is more heat-resistant. A 2011 MY LEAF doesn't even come close to that.

Click to expand...

+1

Especially not a 2011 LEAF which shows 100km on the GOM with a full charge.

It sounds like an exercise in frustration to me. I recommend that you hold out for a 2015 or later LEAF.

RegGuheert said:

Especially not a 2011 LEAF which shows 100km on the GOM with a full charge.

It sounds like an exercise in frustration to me. I recommend that you hold out for a 2015 or later LEAF.

Click to expand...

We don't know whether or when the "lizard" battery will available in parts of the world outside North America, do we?