Kubla
Active member
What are gids and do I really need a meter to track them, my S model does not have carwings
GIDS
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Randy
Well-known member
A GID is a measure used by the LEAF internally, and seems to be roughly equivalent to about 80 watt-hours. A new LEAF will charge up to about 271 GIDs on a 100% charge when the battery is new, and then the GID number will go down as you drive the car after charging to 100%. As the LEAF ages and the battery starts to slightly deteriorate, the GID reading will also begin to decline when measured after a 100% charge, so after a while it won't reach 271 or thereabouts any more. Maybe after a year, your battery will charge up to 255 GIDs, etc.
When the first battery capacity bar disappears on the car dash display, I've heard people on the forum say that they were getting approximately 225 GIDs or so at full charge. Of course, not all cars and batteries behave the same, as there are temperature / weather differences, etc.
So if you had a GID meter or used the LEAFdd tool, or the LEAF Spy application with a bluetooth OBD II adapter, you can watch the gradual decline of your batteries and see where you're at. Some of the tools also report battery temperature, which is interesting to track as well. DC Fast charging can cause the battery temperature to go up significantly...
So, do you need to measure and track GIDs? Not really, it's just another tool that gives you information about how the car and battery are doing...
When the first battery capacity bar disappears on the car dash display, I've heard people on the forum say that they were getting approximately 225 GIDs or so at full charge. Of course, not all cars and batteries behave the same, as there are temperature / weather differences, etc.
So if you had a GID meter or used the LEAFdd tool, or the LEAF Spy application with a bluetooth OBD II adapter, you can watch the gradual decline of your batteries and see where you're at. Some of the tools also report battery temperature, which is interesting to track as well. DC Fast charging can cause the battery temperature to go up significantly...
So, do you need to measure and track GIDs? Not really, it's just another tool that gives you information about how the car and battery are doing...
TickTock
Well-known member
stjohnh
Well-known member
Randy said:
While this was more-or-less true of 2011 and 2012 Leafs, it is not true for the 2013 Leafs, and probably for the 2014, 2015 Leafs. The GID was a useful tool to help gauge range and degradation for earlier Leafs. Not so good for newer Leafs.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
Your S model has a %SOC (State of Charge) display on the dash (selectable with the four buttons on the left side of the dash). That will serve as a fairly precise fuel gauge. 2011/2012 LEAFs do not have the %SOC display, so the Gid-meter was developed to give more information about the energy level of the battery, since the twelve fuel bars are too coarse and crude to be very useful. [And the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM) is worthless as a fuel gauge, for reasons much discussed elsewhere.]Kubla said:
The downside of the %SOC display is that it is relative to the capacity of the battery. As the battery capacity degrades, the %SOC meter will still show "100%" as "full," but each percent will represent less energy. So, a trip that takes you 40% when your car is new might take 45% a year or two later under identical driving conditions. Nevertheless, as this decline in battery capacity is gradual you should be able to adapt to the change over time. Just be aware of it.
Since the Gid-meters we use on our older LEAFs display an energy unit, the number of Gids a particular trip takes remains fairly constant under identical driving conditions regardless of the capacity of the battery. That makes it a superb fuel gauge.
Another advantage of the various meters, such as Leaf Spy, is that they show the battery temperature, as measured by the internal sensors in the battery, and the battery capacity (in Amp•hours). Temperature is directly linked to battery capacity decline, as well as battery performance in very cold temperatures. Battery capacity in 2013 and newer LEAFs isn't as precisely measured by the meters as in older LEAFs, for reasons unclear (so far as I know). It remains to be seen how useful those Amp•hour numbers will be over time in the newer LEAFs. Nevertheless, when shopping for a used LEAF this is the best number we have to determine the health of the battery. The meters will also display the voltages of individual cell-pairs in the battery, which helps one see if a cell-pair is an outlier.
Whether any of this is of interest to you is your call. Since you have a pretty good fuel gauge in the %SOC meter, you don't really need an add-on meter for that purpose. Just be aware of its limitations.
As an aside to LEAF newcomers: be aware that the reason you have that %SOC meter on the dash is because 2011 LEAF owners made it clear to Nissan that it was needed and that the 12 bar fuel gauge was completely inadequate. There are many other improvements to the newer LEAFs that are due, in large part, to the feedback from early LEAF owners.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
stjohnh said:
Really? I don't think that's true.
Kubla
Active member
thanks, I have been keeping the display on the KWH average gauge
TomT
Well-known member
Agreed! I've seen nothing to make me think otherwise.
TonyWilliams said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
I haven't followed closely but I believe some of the problem stems from the starting gids of some '13+ Leafs having values well below 281 at 100% charge, misleading some folks to believe they started w/a degraded battery. (Examples at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?)
And, if memory serves, after the BMS learned, the gid values went up, eventually... someone correct me if I'm wrong.
And, I recall the post at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
I don't watch this stuff carefully as I have nothing with which to view gids and rarely push it in terms of range...
I haven't followed closely but I believe some of the problem stems from the starting gids of some '13+ Leafs having values well below 281 at 100% charge, misleading some folks to believe they started w/a degraded battery. (Examples at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?)
And, if memory serves, after the BMS learned, the gid values went up, eventually... someone correct me if I'm wrong.
And, I recall the post at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
I don't watch this stuff carefully as I have nothing with which to view gids and rarely push it in terms of range...
Nubo
Well-known member
I went 2 1/2 years without a GID meter. Finally, I got one, mostly because I had yet to lose a bar and was curious as to the actual health of the battery pack. The other thing was I was planning a long trip (nearly 1000 miles) and wanted something a bit more accurate than the "12 bars" to assist with planning.
cwerdna
Well-known member
My lease is only 2 years and since I have a % SoC indicator and rarely push it, in terms of range or being near the bottom, I don't need it.Nubo said:
I would be semi-curious about other stuff provided by Leaf Spy but never did get an answer (or dig into too much) about cheap BT or wi-fi OBD2 dongle that is switched off w/o modifications when the car's off. I don't want to make the 12 volt go flat. I carry both an iPhone (5) and Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S4) but prefer iOS...
TomT
Well-known member
Leaf Spy Pro provides so much information and logging capability, and is having more added all the time, that it is almost impossible to list everything it can do! I would definitely go with Leaf Spy Pro on Android rather than an iOS version as it is far more developed and full functioned. You can also use the cheaper and more power efficient BT modules rather than being stuck with WiFi...
One advantage of Gids (and interpretations thereof) is that you always hit LBW and VLBW at the same number (49 and 24 on my 2011) so it is easier to have an idea where you are than with SOC where the LBW and VLBW point can change with a number of factors...
One advantage of Gids (and interpretations thereof) is that you always hit LBW and VLBW at the same number (49 and 24 on my 2011) so it is easier to have an idea where you are than with SOC where the LBW and VLBW point can change with a number of factors...
cwerdna said:
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
One advantage of an external meter is that you can have it on and not have to switch to the dash %SOC display. But as a fuel gauge the %SOC on the dash is all you really need and it is more useful than the mileage efficiency meter most of the time. However, it should be easy to switch between the two as needed.Kubla said:
Pay particular attention to the %SOC at which you hit "Low Battery Warning" (yellow caution light appears and the GOM number begins to flash) and "Very Low Battery Warning" (GOM goes to --- and I think the %SOC may do the same, not sure). Since the S model doesn't have the audio LBW and VLBW warnings you need to learn where they occur as a function of % State of Charge. [Be aware that these threshold numbers will gradually rise as the battery capacity degrades.]
For older LEAFs the rule of thumb developed by Tony Williams is that you have about twice the number of miles between LBW and VLBW as you do between VLBW and turtle. So, if you set a trip meter at LBW you will have an idea how far you can still go at VLBW: about half as many miles. However, there has been some discussion that the newer LEAFs have more of a reserve below VLBW than the older ones. I don't know if that issue has ever been resolved.
The reason I mention all this is because you still have quite a bit of range below Low Battery Warning and if you don't use it when needed you are artificially reducing the total range of your car unnecessarily. New LEAF owners should practice going down to VLBW just to get a feel for how many miles they get after LBW. It should help reduce "range anxiety". The %SOC gauge is a big step towards that goal.
FWIW.
TimLee
Well-known member
I drove 2 1/2 years too without a meter.cwerdna said:
Now that I have one I would not be without LEAF Spy Pro.
I am still not someone that drives it below VLBW much but there is a lot more confidence knowing much more precisely where you are on range.
I leave the non-switched OBDII adapter plugged in all the time and have seen no impact on 12V, but I do always turn off LEAF spy Pro and it turns off Bluetooth.
Plus, you get the marvelous new graph of charging power and SC and % GIDS.; tire pressure monitoring with adjustable alarms; detailed pack temperatures; and marvelous data logging.
Most useful cost effective app ever.
Try it.
You'll like it.
