Evoforce
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:09 am

drees wrote:
Evoforce wrote:The 13-15 are a larger pack configuration compared to original 11-12.

This is simply not true. The '13-15 LEAF modules are exactly the same size as the '11-12 LEAF modules. And they are lighter than the '13-15 LEAF modules.

Ignore the variance in SOC% when charging to "100%". It simply varies a decent amount, especially if you charge from above 80% to 100% - it won't get to the normal ~95% reported SOC. The LBC gets confused.

Instead of looking at the SOC%, just look at the pack voltage. If it's 393-394V at rest you're good and have 100% charge. Now, the '13+ LEAFs will charge to a slightly higher pack voltage than the '11-12 LEAFs - primarily because they will spend a decent amount of time topping off the pack where the '11-12 LEAFs cut off pretty quick once the charge rate gets down under 1000W or so, but the '13+ LEAFs will spend quite a bit of time pushing in a few hundred watts. As a result, the pack voltage will typically be about 1V higher than the earlier LEAFs.


So you have gone this far... please explain the extra support bracket that has to be used on the 11-12 to accommodate the larger pack as I was told. I would be curious to hear your explanation. There have been rumblings that the battery energy density may have been changed in the 13+. I for one haven't really accepted that yet, but it could answer some anomalies. I would like you to name your source that the batteries haven't changed. Also, keep in mind, a change in energy density doesn't have to mean a VISABLE difference either.
Last edited by Evoforce on Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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drees
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Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:33 am

Evoforce wrote:So you have gone this far... please explain the extra support bracket that has to be used on the 11-12 to accommodate the larger pack as I was told.

What extra bracket?

The pack bolts straight up into the car - no brackets needed. There's a harness adapter that's required and the underbody panels are slightly different, but that's it.

Evoforce wrote:There have been rumblings that the battery energy density may have been changed in the 13+.

Possibly, but not significant. If anything the extra energy comes from charging to a slightly higher voltage.

Anyway, getting way OT now.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

Evoforce
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:42 am

drees wrote:
Evoforce wrote:So you have gone this far... please explain the extra support bracket that has to be used on the 11-12 to accommodate the larger pack as I was told.

What extra bracket?

The pack bolts straight up into the car - no brackets needed. There's a harness adapter that's required and the underbody panels are slightly different, but that's it.

Evoforce wrote:There have been rumblings that the battery energy density may have been changed in the 13+.

Possibly, but not significant. If anything the extra energy comes from charging to a slightly higher voltage.

Anyway, getting way OT now.


Quantity 2 of these 740D0-3NF1A BRKT ASMY-BAT M

Bracket Assembly that all 2011-12 need to install a 2013-15 battery to accommodate pack difference.

Everything, is degrading what seems to be equally in the climate that I reside in. But others are swearing that 13+ are appearing to be more durable in ideal climates, and with some of the anomalies that are occurring with the 2015 lizard pack installs into 2011's, there may be a basis for their claim of less degradation. I am not sure what I believe yet and I was contrary to that thought previously, but after focusing on it, I am now not so sure in that conviction...
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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dgpcolorado
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Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:48 pm

drees wrote:The pack bolts straight up into the car - no brackets needed. There's a harness adapter that's required and the underbody panels are slightly different, but that's it...
My understanding is that there is a bracket needed to adapt the 2013 and newer style of battery in a 2011/2012. The old packs were more difficult to handle because the cans needed to be strapped together and didn't hold together as a complete unit (I got a chance to read the service tech's training manual on battery replacement and the pictures show this clearly). I believe that Nissan fixed that with a redesign in the 2013 MY that makes the battery pack easier to handle as a complete unit. It was my impression that the $200 adapter needed to fit the new packs in older LEAFs had to do with this change in pack design. Not that I've ever seen one, so you may be right...
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vrwl
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Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 8597
Location: Northeastern PA/Poconos

Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:34 am

It's been awhile since I last posted here. Here's my latest info from LeafSpy:

2011 LEAF SL (2 bars lost)

AHr 51.378 (this has actually increased a tiny bit over the past couple of months)
SOH 78%
SOC Full charge, whatever that is anymore
Hx 59.92%
GIDs 208
390.88V

odo 20947 mi
7 QC & 1328 L1/L2
Vicki
2011 Silver SL-Mfg 8/11-Purch 6/12
34000 miles

DiamondDan73
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:35 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2015
Location: Southern California

Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:44 pm

Looks like I'm getting close to my 9th bar dropping. When I got the car on September 1st it had 9 bars but did not have the P3227 update so I had that done immediately. The update raised my AHr to 50.80 from 42.94. I'm almost back to the same AHr after 5 months but this time my Hx is at 45.84% instead of 58.77%. Based on a lot of the other 8 bar cars, most of their Hx was in the 45% instead of the 58% when they lost their 9th bar.
I also noticed that once the weather in So Cal turned cold my AHr went up along with my Hx. So from November thru January I had almost zero changes.
I installed my level 2 charger a few weeks ago and I noticed that my numbers started dropping again even with the cold weather here.
If everything goes right, I hope to see my 9th bar drop this month and I can get my Lizzard battery installed before it gets hot again.

Sept 1 38,950 mi AHr 42.94 SOH 65% Hx 58.77%
Sept 2 38,950 mi AHr 50.80 SOH 65% Hx 58.58%
Oct 1 40,900 mi AHr 45.66 SOH 69% Hx 49.02%
Nov 1 43,183 mi AHr 44.31 SOH 67% Hx 46.58%
Dec 1 45,050 mi AHr 44.12 SOH 67% Hx 46.26%
Jan 1 45,990 mi AHr 44.32 SOH 67% Hx 46.59%
Feb 1 47,222 mi AHr 43.86 SOH 66% Hx 45.84%
2012 Cayenne Red SL
Purchased 9/1/15 38,950 miles 9 bars AHr 42.94
09/2/15 P3227 update 9 bars AHr 50.80
02/20/16 47,973 miles 8 bars AHr 43.30
New Battery 04/22/16 50,025 miles 12 bars AHr 63.80

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keydiver
Posts: 1051
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Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:21 pm

You're right, you could be very close. I lost my 9th bar at 43.47 AHr and 45.20 Hx.
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Cinnabar
Posts: 121
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Leaf Number: 001693
Location: New Almaden, CA

Re: POST YOUR BATTERY DEGRADATION RESULTS

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:09 pm

Cinnabar wrote:
Cinnabar wrote:
Cinnabar wrote:Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:16 pm
I lost my first bar yesterday after 28 months and 35.7k miles. Mostly charge to 80%, charge overnight and at work using L2. 32 mile one way commute.


And I lost my second bar on Monday, Aug 11, 2014. Close to 11 months after I lost the first. My mileage is now at 46.6K.


I lost my third bar yesterday, July 4, 2015. Another 11 months between bar losses. My mileage is at 59.5K.



My fourth bar is gone as of February 13, 2016. MY mileage is 66.5K, so only seven thousand between bars. It is getting to the point that range is a serious issue. I always need to charge to 100% to get about anywhere. I am using my Volt more and more as the public charging infrastructure is still sorely lacking.

Evoforce
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: POST YOUR BATTERY DEGRADATION RESULTS

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:14 pm

Cinnabar wrote:
Cinnabar wrote:
Cinnabar wrote:
And I lost my second bar on Monday, Aug 11, 2014. Close to 11 months after I lost the first. My mileage is now at 46.6K.


I lost my third bar yesterday, July 4, 2015. Another 11 months between bar losses. My mileage is at 59.5K.



My fourth bar is gone as of February 13, 2016. MY mileage is 66.5K, so only seven thousand between bars. It is getting to the point that range is a serious issue. I always need to charge to 100% to get about anywhere. I am using my Volt more and more as the public charging infrastructure is still sorely lacking.


I'm sorry you didn't make it to a free replacement.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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Stanton
Posts: 1957
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
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Re: Post Your Battery Degradation Results

Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:12 am

drees wrote:Ignore the variance in SOC% when charging to "100%". It simply varies a decent amount, especially if you charge from above 80% to 100% - it won't get to the normal ~95% reported SOC. The LBC gets confused.

Instead of looking at the SOC%, just look at the pack voltage. If it's 393-394V at rest you're good and have 100% charge. Now, the '13+ LEAFs will charge to a slightly higher pack voltage than the '11-12 LEAFs - primarily because they will spend a decent amount of time topping off the pack where the '11-12 LEAFs cut off pretty quick once the charge rate gets down under 1000W or so, but the '13+ LEAFs will spend quite a bit of time pushing in a few hundred watts. As a result, the pack voltage will typically be about 1V higher than the earlier LEAFs.


This makes a lot of sense. My new (lizard) pack tops out @393.5 V, and I my "100% SOC" never gets much above 93%. However, I'm definitely getting range at least as good as when the car was new. :mrgreen:
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12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
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Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

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