Gid2 Percent Formula

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TonyWilliams

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
10,107
Location
Vista, California USA
Ok, I don't know why this is bothering me, but I propose that we adjust our formula for Gids to read 100% at 281 Gid and 0% at 7 Gid.

This will more accurately reflect the 21kWh usable power, since the bottom about 300-400 watt hours are not usable, but included in our percentages.

(281 GIDs / 13.38) = 21kWh * 4 miles per kWh = 84 miles. But, as we know, any simple formula like that leaves miles remaining while the car in in turtle. Not wise.

Therefore, I want 7 Gid to be "zero", which also reflects a more accurate 50% useable energy level (a key metric to know when it's time to go home), hence the Gid2 formula:


(GID -7) / (281 - 7) = GID2


So that 281 GID = (1 * 21) = 21 * X miles per kWh = Y range in miles

And that 144 GID = (0.5 * 21) = 10.5 * X miles per kWh = Z range in miles

And so that 7 GID = (0 * 21) = 0 * X miles per kWh = 0 range in miles

The new 2013 will show 100% regardless of capacity, when fully charged, and show the following:


SOC% - "kWh usable" --Gid----Gid%---Gid2%---2013 dash % (2013 dash % data based on SOC%, not Gids)
95.x% -21.0--Full----281---100%---100%----100% (non-degraded at 70F; 21kWh usable)
------10.5--Half----144--51.2%----50%----50% (non-degraded at 70F; 10.5kWh usable)
95.x%-10.5--Full***--144--51.2%----50%----100% (***used 50% degraded at 70F; 10.5kWh usable)
------ 3.2---LBW----49---17.4%---15.3%----17%
------ 1.3---VLB----24----8.6%-----6.2%----8%
2.x%-- 0.0---Turtle --7-----2.5%-----0%-----(---)

NOTE: LBW and VLB are indexed to Gids, therefore those values won't match the SOC derived data of the 2013 dash % with a degraded battery.

Turtle is not indexed to Gids, therefore under a high load, like freeway speed, expect turtle at 7 or 8 Gids, and at extremely low power, as low as 4 Gids to Turtle.
 
Your range chart says that Turtle mode starts at GIDs = 4, which
would be below 0% in your proposal. Presumably Turtle mode
stops at about GID = 2,right?

Did you mean to propose 2 GIDs instead of 7 as the 0% point?

I suggest that we do not change the GID%, since it would be
confusing the old GID with the new GID2.

However, the formula for a "TONY" would be
TONY% = max( 0, (100 * (GID - 7) / (281 - 7) ) )
which would display 0% for the GID values less than 7.
 
I'll see your GID and raise you two TONYS. Note that a TONY is worth less than a GID in the energy marketplace, but you have more usable TONYS than you do GIDS on a full charge so it all balances out in the end.
 
Does anyone use %GID’s? Wouldn’t it be a lot more useful to show useable kWh remaining? That way I can remove one step of my mental math…
 
I am used to the gids percentage, but I think that it would be good to have usable kW.h before turtle, like (gids - 7) x 0.08.
 
Not all Leafs start with 281 Gids of usable capacity, so for those cars it would still be off. Most new Leafs started with 279 from my research.

Why not simply use the Real SoC figure?

-Phil
 
I have %Gid as one of the values displayed on my meter and I find it handy at times. I'm actually thinking of changing the code on a number of the values presented to correspond to my reduced maximum battery capacity and Gids. Currently I am displaying Gids, %Gids, remaining battery capacity in Kwh, voltage, Kwh in/out of battery, and extended fuel bars scaled to 0 at VLBW. I'd like to add real SOC% too, I believe...

FairwoodRed said:
Does anyone use %GID’s? Wouldn’t it be a lot more useful to show useable kWh remaining? That way I can remove one step of my mental math…
 
As the battery capacity decreases, the Real SOC is
useless without a "tank" capacity to multiply by.

The Real SOC only shows the "fullness" of the tank,
not how much fuel is in the "shrunken" tank.
It suffers from the same problem that the "fuel-bar"
gauge has: even with a 60% capacity battery, it will
still indicate a fairly misleading "full".

I think of the GID% as a percentage of my car's
original fuel, and thus range (modified for conditions).
 
garygid said:
As the battery capacity decreases, the Real SOC is
useless without a "tank" capacity to multiply by.

The Real SOC only shows the "fullness" of the tank,
not how much fuel is in the "shrunken" tank.
It suffers from the same problem that the "fuel-bar"
gauge has: even with a 60% capacity battery, it will
still indicate a fairly misleading "full".

I think of the GID% as a percentage of my car's
original fuel, and thus range (modified for conditions).

+1 My LSGII only shows % which is based on the raw number 281. SoC % is only useful when the battery is new. Shortly after I got my meter, it hit 100% but never again.
 
garygid said:
Your range chart says that Turtle mode starts at GIDs = 4, which
would be below 0% in your proposal. Presumably Turtle mode
stops at about GID = 2,right?

Did you mean to propose 2 GIDs instead of 7 as the 0% point?

I do mean 7 Gid. Turtle is not an easy parameter to define with a strict Gid number. It can come on close to 8-9 Gid with high speeds (like we saw in Phoenix at 100km/h) or below 7 Gid with real easy driving (like the time i was 1.8 miles from my house... and made it home).

So, 7 Gid may or may not be Turtle, but it is the practical end of your trip.


However, the formula for a "TONY" would be
TONY% = max( 0, (100 * (GID - 7) / (281 - 7) ) )
which would display 0% for the GID values less than 7.

100 ((281 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 100%

100 ((144 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 50%

100 ((7 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 0%

Ok, I like it.
 
LEAFfan said:
garygid said:
As the battery capacity decreases, the Real SOC is
useless without a "tank" capacity to multiply by.

The Real SOC only shows the "fullness" of the tank,
not how much fuel is in the "shrunken" tank.
It suffers from the same problem that the "fuel-bar"
gauge has: even with a 60% capacity battery, it will
still indicate a fairly misleading "full".

I think of the GID% as a percentage of my car's
original fuel, and thus range (modified for conditions).

+1 My LSGII only shows % which is based on the raw number 281. SoC % is only useful when the battery is new. Shortly after I got my meter, it hit 100% but never again.


Yes, what all those guys said. The SOC % is great for that singular time when the battery is new.
 
vegastar said:
I am used to the gids percentage, but I think that it would be good to have usable kW.h before turtle, like (gids - 7) x 0.08.

100 ((281 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 100% * 21 = 21kWh

100 ((144 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 50% * 21 = 10.5kWh

100 ((7 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 0% * 21 = 0kWh
 
garygid said:
As the battery capacity decreases, the Real SOC is
useless without a "tank" capacity to multiply by.

The Real SOC only shows the "fullness" of the tank,
not how much fuel is in the "shrunken" tank.
It suffers from the same problem that the "fuel-bar"
gauge has: even with a 60% capacity battery, it will
still indicate a fairly misleading "full".

I think of the GID% as a percentage of my car's
original fuel, and thus range (modified for conditions).
LEAFSCAN™ shows the actual kWh capacity remaining, but still, even with a very granular SoC, it's waaaay more useful than the low-granularity Gids. You quickly get a "feel" for the SoC values even with a reduced "tank", just as you would if you were driving faster. Granularity makes all the difference! When you can see it tick away based on how you drive, you quickly become expert at calculating your efficiency and range.

-Phil
 
If only there was one in my car now... :lol:

Ingineer said:
LEAFSCAN™ shows the actual kWh capacity remaining, but still, even with a very granular SoC, it's waaaay more useful than the low-granularity Gids. You quickly get a "feel" for the SoC values even with a reduced "tank", just as you would if you were driving faster. Granularity makes all the difference! When you can see it tick away based on how you drive, you quickly become expert at calculating your efficiency and range.
 
TonyWilliams said:
vegastar said:
I am used to the gids percentage, but I think that it would be good to have usable kW.h before turtle, like (gids - 7) x 0.08.

100 ((281 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 100% * 21 = 21kWh

100 ((144 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 50% * 21 = 10.5kWh

100 ((7 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 0% * 21 = 0kWh


The new 2013 will show 100% regardless of capacity, when fully charged, and show the following:


SOC% - "kWh usable" --Gid----Gid%---Gid2%---2013 dash % (2013 dash % data based on SOC%, not Gids)
95.x% -21.0--Full----281---100%---100%----100% (non-degraded at 70F; 21kWh usable)
------10.5--Half----144--51.2%----50%----50% (non-degraded at 70F; 10.5kWh usable)
95.x%-10.5--Full***--144--51.2%----50%----100% (***used 50% degraded at 70F; 10.5kWh usable)
------ 3.2---LBW----49---17.4%---15.3%----17%
----- 1.3 ---VLB----24----8.6%-----6.2%----8%
2.x%-- 0.0---Turtle --7-----2.5%-----0%-----(---)

NOTE: LBW and VLB are indexed to Gids, therefore those values won't match the SOC derived data of the 2013 dash % with a degraded battery.

Turtle is not indexed to Gids, therefore under a high load, like freeway speed, expect turtle at 7 or 8 Gids, and at extremely low power, as low as 4 Gids to Turtle.


SOC%-"kWh usable" --Gid----Gid%---Gid2%---2013 dash %
95.x% -21.0--Full----281---100%---100%----100%
-------- 3.1---LBW----49---17.4%---15.3%----17%
--------- 1.3---VLB----24----8.6%-----6.2%----8%
2.x%-- 0.0---Turtle --7-----2.5%-----0%-----(---)

Turtle can be triggered between about 4 and 8 Gid. The car physically stops when the lowest cell pair hits the target low voltage, usually around 3-5 Gid (it can very a lot... Get off the road at turtle).
 
mwalsh said:
Not to nitpick, but I actually hit Turtle at 6 Gids the other day.

Turtle has a variable threshold depending on load. If you're going down the freeway at freeway speeds, it will be higher than 6 (maybe 7-8).

If you're driving 12mph, like I've done, you can turtle as low as 4.
 
One more advantage of Gid2 data is that it will very closely match the 2013 dash SOC% when the car is new, and eventually will show the degradation much more clearly as the Gid2 and SOC% diverge over time.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Turtle has a variable threshold depending on load. If you're going down the freeway at freeway speeds, it will be higher than 6 (maybe 7-8).

If you're driving 12mph, like I've done, you can turtle as low as 4.
I suspect this is due to Turtle being triggered by a voltage threshold, not SoC. Under higher loads the voltage sags lower sooner. So this means if you are trying to make it somewhere and you are low, drive very gently!

-Phil
 
Back
Top