If you sold the Lexus and leased the RAV-4 it should put more money in your pocket during the lease. However, with a limited lease and no buyout option (?) on the car, you'd be left with a few thousand and no car at lease end. You might be able to lease a longer-range Leaf at that point, but not for sure. Has anyone tried to extend a RAV-4 EV lease successfully?
I need true answer on range.
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TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Reddy said:
So, as the battery degrades, or he drives faster, or runs the heater, or the battery is cold and the battery heater automatically goes on... then, he will have to put gasoline in the thing ALMOST EVERY FRICKING DAY in addition to paying a healthy premium for a 4 passenger EV.
Plus, he said he didn't want gas, anyway.
How does the BMW drive with the REX running? I know it's smooth and quiet, but how much power does it provide for driving and for charging?
smkettner
Well-known member
Lexus will drop in half in three years so cost is $36,000 in fuel + $7,000 for vehicle + $1,000 for maintenance = $44,000
RAV $500 x 35 months $17,500 + maybe $12,500 in electric + $0 maintenance = $30,000
Use that savings to combine with a small (50%) solar and TOU EV rates and the cost of electric will go away.
You may need to slightly adjust your lifestyle but the savings are real.
RAV $500 x 35 months $17,500 + maybe $12,500 in electric + $0 maintenance = $30,000
Use that savings to combine with a small (50%) solar and TOU EV rates and the cost of electric will go away.
You may need to slightly adjust your lifestyle but the savings are real.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
The car is not 36 months old yet. So, there aren't any lease returns.
Honestly, I don't see any reason why they would or would not extend a lease. Unless, they really want to take them back and crush them?
I suspect they will just go to auction like any car, however.
Yes, you can buy the car at the end of the lease.
smkettner
Well-known member
Residual on my RAV4-EV is about $19,000. I currently plan to own the car in 2.5 years.LeftieBiker said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
To me, this seems rather simple. Lease the Rav4 EV today for $0 down, unlimited miles, $500-ish per month and make the commute comfortably and without range anxiety. Charge at both ends. Easy.
Then, sell the gasoline car and put $14,500 in your pocket. Then, when your $2500 check from the state of California shows up for the lease of the Rav4 EV, take all the money and bet on 7.
Guaranteed win.
Also, enjoy the white HOV sticker in the commuter lane.
Only the Rav4 EV has the range and unlimited miles. But, act quick, because they are almost completely sold out. Perhaps, a couple months, and there's no guarantee that the unlimited miles lease will be available after 3 Sept.
Your cost to operate the Rav4 EV for 3 years: $23,800 minus sale of current car and minus $2500 from state.
36 months * $550 = $19,800
140 miles daily * 20 days a month * 36 months 100,000 miles
100,000 miles / 3 miles per kWh = 33,333 kWh
33,333kWh * $0.12 average cost = $4000
Extended warranty must be purchased for at least 125,000 miles at lease.
No maintenance or repair expenses beyond normal car stuff (tires, wipers, etc)
Plus insurance, common to any car.
*****
Cost to operate 100,000 more miles at 25 mpg and $4 gallon gasoline:
(100,000 / 25) * 4 = $16,000
Loss of value of current car with an additional 100,000 miles... $$$$$$
Maintenance with a 200,000 mile car? Priceless
Then, sell the gasoline car and put $14,500 in your pocket. Then, when your $2500 check from the state of California shows up for the lease of the Rav4 EV, take all the money and bet on 7.
Guaranteed win.
Also, enjoy the white HOV sticker in the commuter lane.
Only the Rav4 EV has the range and unlimited miles. But, act quick, because they are almost completely sold out. Perhaps, a couple months, and there's no guarantee that the unlimited miles lease will be available after 3 Sept.
Your cost to operate the Rav4 EV for 3 years: $23,800 minus sale of current car and minus $2500 from state.
36 months * $550 = $19,800
140 miles daily * 20 days a month * 36 months 100,000 miles
100,000 miles / 3 miles per kWh = 33,333 kWh
33,333kWh * $0.12 average cost = $4000
Extended warranty must be purchased for at least 125,000 miles at lease.
No maintenance or repair expenses beyond normal car stuff (tires, wipers, etc)
Plus insurance, common to any car.
*****
Cost to operate 100,000 more miles at 25 mpg and $4 gallon gasoline:
(100,000 / 25) * 4 = $16,000
Loss of value of current car with an additional 100,000 miles... $$$$$$
Maintenance with a 200,000 mile car? Priceless
TimLee
Well-known member
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:TonyWilliams said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
This guy says 65 miles of range with the BMW i3 before the 650cc motorcycle engine kicks in:
http://youtu.be/fmfb8Mt5qvE?t=3m35s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The lease is FAR more money than a Rav4 EV, plus with 100,000 miles of driving, I wouldn't even want to know how much money that would cost to lease!!!!
Only an unlimited mileage lease even makes sense, given the anticipated driving.
http://youtu.be/fmfb8Mt5qvE?t=3m35s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The lease is FAR more money than a Rav4 EV, plus with 100,000 miles of driving, I wouldn't even want to know how much money that would cost to lease!!!!
Only an unlimited mileage lease even makes sense, given the anticipated driving.
minispeed
Well-known member
Are you a gambling man? If a leaf can do it for you on a new battery then it's only $5500 to replace it if it can't do it anymore. So how much cheaper is the leaf than the rav4? If you replace the battery once in a lease are you still paying less?
I would assume from your need to have a hatch that the i3 is too small. I really loved sitting in it as the driver, but it had no room in the back.
There's also the next volt, details will be out in January. If you are willing to drive slow enough to make it to your desitnation with a safety net in a leaf you could probably get a 60 mile rated volt (that's the rumour) to the same 70 mile destination on electricty only. Current volt drivers who drive slow can do 50 plus miles. You don't have to leave a safety net because if you run out of juice 1000ft from the door you have the ICE.
Mercedes Benz is HEAVY. Huge battery on it but almost the same range as all the others. The kia claims to have a more efficent system than the leaf but all the talk is 70-90 miles max EPA range (just speculation now). I have heard that it will have cooled seats though......
As for bringing back a car mid lease you don't pay anything for millage fees but they do a trade in assement based on what they think the car is worth with the current millage/condition. If they think they can sell it used for more than what the buy out is on the lease then they will let you out of it with no penalty. If you buy another car from them they may take some of the cost of breaking the lease away to get your business again.
I would assume from your need to have a hatch that the i3 is too small. I really loved sitting in it as the driver, but it had no room in the back.
There's also the next volt, details will be out in January. If you are willing to drive slow enough to make it to your desitnation with a safety net in a leaf you could probably get a 60 mile rated volt (that's the rumour) to the same 70 mile destination on electricty only. Current volt drivers who drive slow can do 50 plus miles. You don't have to leave a safety net because if you run out of juice 1000ft from the door you have the ICE.
Mercedes Benz is HEAVY. Huge battery on it but almost the same range as all the others. The kia claims to have a more efficent system than the leaf but all the talk is 70-90 miles max EPA range (just speculation now). I have heard that it will have cooled seats though......
As for bringing back a car mid lease you don't pay anything for millage fees but they do a trade in assement based on what they think the car is worth with the current millage/condition. If they think they can sell it used for more than what the buy out is on the lease then they will let you out of it with no penalty. If you buy another car from them they may take some of the cost of breaking the lease away to get your business again.
minispeed said:
I am not gambling. I just have a very specific use case, wanted some honest feedback. The leaf doesn't have unlimited mileage lease, so bying it is the only option. With my driving, after 3 years the leaf will not be worth much, even if i put in a new battery. And that whole time i will have to be worried about getting to work. A hatchback is a must for me. I don't want ro the volt because i will end up still spending money on gas, in that case an old prius or my lexus would just do fine in 3-4 year period.
If i have to wait on info on the new volt, by then i would have sunk in another5-6k in gas, and i just hate doing it.
If you wrote how many miles a year you drive, I missed it. If it's a few thousand over the lease limit, you can negotiate a better mileage allowance and then just pay the difference. That would still be less than gas.
Oh, and if you catch the Prius or the Prius PHEV on sale, it's $25k for the PHEV and about $23k for the Prius II, not $30k.
Oh, and if you catch the Prius or the Prius PHEV on sale, it's $25k for the PHEV and about $23k for the Prius II, not $30k.
Pipcecil
Well-known member
as others have said the leaf won't work. Once your battery hits a bit below 85% capacity, you will be unable to make the trip unless you plan to stop midway to charge every day (dunno if there is a QC or you are willing to wait the long time at a level 2). And that's for each one way trip - pretty harsh. Taking the average time when people loose their 1st bar (20k-30k) and assuming the BEST scenario (30k) and only driving 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month, you leaf may last you a year before you are unable to make the trip. Heat plays a factor but cycling loss (how often you charge) is a huge chunk that causes the battery to degrade.
Only the Rav4 and Tesla have enough range to make, including degradation loss (assuming 70% to 8 years/100k for the "life of the vehicle"). Beyond if you want as much battery an i3 REx will work - at least for awhile you can do all battery until the battery degradation occurs somewhat and you will start using gas. Everything else would cause gas usage on each trip.
Only the Rav4 and Tesla have enough range to make, including degradation loss (assuming 70% to 8 years/100k for the "life of the vehicle"). Beyond if you want as much battery an i3 REx will work - at least for awhile you can do all battery until the battery degradation occurs somewhat and you will start using gas. Everything else would cause gas usage on each trip.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
nasko said:
drive 60 mph and you can get 95 miles on a charge but betting that will be the toughest challenge for you.
learning to drive efficiently is probably going to be the 2nd toughest challenge as well. you spent a $1000 a month on gas for your Lexus which tells me you are waaaay off or drive like a typical upper middle class Californian (yes, I am profiling you) where you get upset if you think you lost a single car position in traffic, need to spend as much time as possible sitting at red lights, or feel that your time is more valuable than sitting in traffic 5 extra minutes.
but ya it can work. We have a guy in WA who did it for 2½ years but then his range degradation caused him to have to stop for 5 mins in between to charge up. But that was on a 2011 which has less range.
maintaining higher tire pressures @ 44 PSI, learning to flow with traffic, driving efficiently, all that can insure your LEAF can make the journey. Keep in mind; it very well might be possible to simply upgrade your pack in a few years to more range. Either way, according to YOU, you will save enough to buy 3 replacement packs before your batteries degrade enough to cause you range concerns.
TimLee
Well-known member
You have a lot more optimism that the OP can radically change his driving behaviour than I do Dave.
OP stated part of the motivation to get EV was HOV access.
Sometimes it moves very fast.
If the OP gets a LEAF and plans to drive 70 miles one way in the HOV, the OP will end up very unhappy with the LEAF just like Googler ended up back in early 2011.
The LEAF is a great vehicle but it is inappropriate for 70 mile one way drives in the CA HOV lane.
OP stated part of the motivation to get EV was HOV access.
Sometimes it moves very fast.
If the OP gets a LEAF and plans to drive 70 miles one way in the HOV, the OP will end up very unhappy with the LEAF just like Googler ended up back in early 2011.
The LEAF is a great vehicle but it is inappropriate for 70 mile one way drives in the CA HOV lane.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
TimLee said:
i dont know about that. first thing i said was his changing his driving habits would be his toughest challenge
$1000 month is spent on gas, mostly because i drive a lot. I am not someone who drives 85 on the 405, but i like 75 whenever possible. Hov access is not my number 1 priority, if it was a pruis plug in would work for me.
Just as an example how much i drive. Bought the car in dec 2013 80k miles, now on august 28, 2014 it has 112. ( i am not sure if it was 86 or 80). As far as driving, I trym to maximise my mpg as much as possible, but when time is of the essence, well time is of the essence.
If i knew about the unlimited mileage lease on the rav 4 i wouldn't even post in this forum. However everyone has been very helpfull.
Just as an example how much i drive. Bought the car in dec 2013 80k miles, now on august 28, 2014 it has 112. ( i am not sure if it was 86 or 80). As far as driving, I trym to maximise my mpg as much as possible, but when time is of the essence, well time is of the essence.
If i knew about the unlimited mileage lease on the rav 4 i wouldn't even post in this forum. However everyone has been very helpfull.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
nasko said:
http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TimLee
Well-known member
That is nearly 120 miles per day.nasko said:
With that and liking to drive 75 mph (admittedly I do too and the LEAF is marvelous at 90 mph but doesn't go very far), the RAV4 EV will match your requirements much better than a LEAF.
