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TonyWilliams
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:38 pm

Nubo wrote:I think they really need to step out in front of this in a big way, even if they don't yet have all the answers. And not a memo full of disclaimers and spin, but forthright statements and a major unwavering show of commitment, such as a retro-active warranty.

The clock is ticking.


If Nissan was truly surprised to learn of battery issues (and let's be honest; EVERYBODY else knew there would be, including the vocal competition), then they are either incompetent or lying to us.

Decades of battery research by Nissan suggests the latter. Engineers at Nissan didn't likely sign off on this without some influence/pressure; somebody overrode their concerns (I recall Carlos suggesting engineers "never think it's ready") and marketing would have pulled the 100 mile (or 200km) BS right out of the tailpipe.

Then the legal department finds a way to make it stick. Hence, no warranty. Of course, not passing the known high heat / low longevity information on to consumers who haphazardly bought the car in Phoenix will be their ULTIMATE downfall.

Everybody should review the Honda hybrid case. They will fight this to the end, because losing or acquiescing is FAR too expensive. Remember the $1.9 billion they got to start this project; it's just about complete in Tennessee. Mission accomplished.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GaslessInSeattle
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:48 pm

I've been visiting Sacramento and the temp pegged out at 111 F today. the AC in the house we are staying in can't keep up. the other night, at 9pm it was still 91F outside. This, IMHO, does not bode well for the Leaf without TMS and or a more robust battery and it's happening in quite a few places across quite a few states. I think it's time for Nissan to stop the press and find a fix before cranking out lots more cars to be sold in locals all across the south where it gets hot and may get even hotter in coming years, cars that ultimately will disappoint buyers in the not so long run.

Nubo wrote:
lukati wrote:...The temperature resolution is quite poor. The temperature bands are frigid (<15F), freezing (15F-32F), cold (32F-50F), cool (50F-65F), comfortable (65F-75F), warm (75F-85F), hot (85F-100F), and sweltering (>100F). For all bands I took the average temperature in the band and I assumed 10F for frigid and 105F for sweltering. ...


If my experience with Tempe residents is any gauge,
110 = "warm"
115 = "hot"

I'm not sure they would ever admit to "sweltering". :lol:
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GeekEV
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:46 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:I've been visiting Sacramento and the temp pegged out at 111 F today. the AC in the house we are staying in can't keep up. the other night, at 9pm it was still 91F outside. This, IMHO, does not bode well for the Leaf without TMS and or a more robust battery and it's happening in quite a few places across quite a few states. I think it's time for Nissan to stop the press and find a fix before cranking out lots more cars to be sold in locals all across the south where it gets hot and may get even hotter in coming years, cars that ultimately will disappoint buyers in the not so long run.

I dunno. I'm in Sacramento and this is now my second summer with my LEAF. While we don't get as hot as Pheonix, we get a few weeks a year well in excess of 100 and temperatures of 110 are not uncommon. No capacity bar loss so far (I don't have a gid meter)...

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GRA
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:49 pm

GeekEV wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:I've been visiting Sacramento and the temp pegged out at 111 F today. the AC in the house we are staying in can't keep up. the other night, at 9pm it was still 91F outside. This, IMHO, does not bode well for the Leaf without TMS and or a more robust battery and it's happening in quite a few places across quite a few states. I think it's time for Nissan to stop the press and find a fix before cranking out lots more cars to be sold in locals all across the south where it gets hot and may get even hotter in coming years, cars that ultimately will disappoint buyers in the not so long run.

I dunno. I'm in Sacramento and this is now my second summer with my LEAF. While we don't get as hot as Pheonix, we get a few weeks a year well in excess of 100 and temperatures of 110 are not uncommon. No capacity bar loss so far (I don't have a gid meter)...

I'll be interested to see if you make it through to fall (post Indian summer) without losing one.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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eHelmholtz
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:24 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:If Nissan was truly surprised to learn of battery issues (and let's be honest; EVERYBODY else knew there would be, including the vocal competition), then they are either incompetent or lying to us.

Tony has been one of the strongest supporters of the LEAF and it is troubling to see the transformation in recent months. I should say that this is troubling for Nissan and it's fledgling EV enterprise because clearly, unlike GM (maybe it's really learned from the EV1 fallout), Nissan has not shown appropriate support for it's early adopters!

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:11 pm

eHelmholtz wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:If Nissan was truly surprised to learn of battery issues (and let's be honest; EVERYBODY else knew there would be, including the vocal competition), then they are either incompetent or lying to us.

Tony has been one of the strongest supporters of the LEAF and it is troubling to see the transformation in recent months. I should say that this is troubling for Nissan and it's fledgling EV enterprise because clearly, unlike GM (maybe it's really learned from the EV1 fallout), Nissan has not shown appropriate support for it's early adopters!


The LEAF is a great car. Even with a screwed up battery pack, for those folks who travel 30 miles or less, I suspect it will be great for a LONG time. Just lease it, don't buy !!!!!

I personally just can't get past the fact that this "train wreck" was virtually preordained. Dumb, dumb, dumb. With everything known about the battery now (and when Nissan released the car), why sell ANY in Arizona or Texas? They would have done quite well just selling the things on the USA west coast.

The battery is the bedrock. It's what everybody asks about. Just a month or two ago, I suggested my aunt in Phoenix get a LEAF. Wow, do I feel stupid calling up telling her that might be such a good idea now, with the current status and likely Nissan "fixes" to "normal" batteries.

I get to tell my Teabagging relatives how Nissan got tons of government money, just like Ecotality, to produce poor designed products. George Bush couldn't have done it better with Iraq; I believed that there must be WMD, and felt pretty stupid after finding the truth.

We've been lied to, and we will again in the future.
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JESLAtm, the premium 40 amp J1772 portable charging solution
JLongtm the J1772 extension cord
JdeMOtm, the CHAdeMO outlet for your electric car
JDaptortm, the J1772 power outlet

www.QuickChargePower.com

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spike09
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:37 pm

I was one of the first deliveries in Florida. I am now at 8 months and over 6K miles with no battery capacity or range loss. I live in Miami and charge to 100% every two to three days. My battery temp is 6 bars.

The temperature in South Florida is pretty consistent, day or night, year-round. The humidity is also consistent (high). I assume the lack of variation in this sub-tropical enviornment is a positive factors for the longevity of my battery pack.
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:06 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
eHelmholtz wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:If Nissan was truly surprised to learn of battery issues (and let's be honest; EVERYBODY else knew there would be, including the vocal competition), then they are either incompetent or lying to us.

Tony has been one of the strongest supporters of the LEAF and it is troubling to see the transformation in recent months. I should say that this is troubling for Nissan and it's fledgling EV enterprise because clearly, unlike GM (maybe it's really learned from the EV1 fallout), Nissan has not shown appropriate support for it's early adopters!


The LEAF is a great car. Even with a screwed up battery pack, for those folks who travel 30 miles or less, I suspect it will be great for a LONG time. Just lease it, don't buy !!!!!

I personally just can't get past the fact that this "train wreck" was virtually preordained. Dumb, dumb, dumb. With everything known about the battery now (and when Nissan released the car), why sell ANY in Arizona or Texas? They would have done quite well just selling the things on the USA west coast.

The battery is the bedrock. It's what everybody asks about. Just a month or two ago, I suggested my aunt in Phoenix get a LEAF. Wow, do I feel stupid calling up telling her that might be such a good idea now, with the current status and likely Nissan "fixes" to "normal" batteries.

I get to tell my Teabagging relatives how Nissan got tons of government money, just like Ecotality, to produce poor designed products. George Bush couldn't have done it better with Iraq; I believed that there must be WMD, and felt pretty stupid after finding the truth.

We've been lied to, and we will again in the future.


Don't single it down to the West Coast... the car would have been good on both coasts... just not those middle areas where Satan lives. :D

thankyouOB
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:24 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
I get to tell my Teabagging relatives how Nissan got tons of government money, just like Ecotality, to produce poor designed products. George Bush couldn't have done it better with Iraq; I believed that there must be WMD, and felt pretty stupid after finding the truth.

We've been lied to, and we will again in the future.


tony,
you are in great danger of jumping the shark here.
you are writing so fast and furiously that you are making logic and grammar mistakes.
please take a breath. it is not your responsibility to personally drive this situation with repetitive post after post after post.

equating this with the WMD and war with Iraq is just too much.
please.
Last edited by thankyouOB on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:27 am

eHelmholtz wrote:Nissan has not shown appropriate support for it's early adopters!


Why would you say that?
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