Said goodbye to the Leaf yesterday

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ravi100

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
20
Location
Southlake TX
Well folks, it came down to this. After losing one bar 10 days ago we began a frantic
search for what our next step should be. I'd like to share my thoughts with other Leaf fans
on MNL.

1. Spoke with several other site members from Phoenix and Dallas that had also lost capacity.

2. Took my car in to the Nissan Dealer (see my post under "Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11" thread)
with rather comical results (I wasn't laughing though).

3. Called Nissan and lodged an official complaint with absolutely no results other than
"its normal, expected loss"

4. Scanned through the warranty documents, Texas Lemon Law statutes, statements by Nissan officials
spoke to a couple of attorneys to see if I had any legal options. Concluded that as long as Nissan
stated that they do NOT warranty capacity, we did not have much recourse other than to wait for
a PR disaster to happen in order for them to rectify this problem.

5. Noticed on our weekly trip to the Farmer's Market in Dallas ( we do this same route every week
after a 100% charge) that we'd lost at least 12 miles of range.

Based on the above we started exploring what the trade in options would be. The Nissan dealer
we bought it from offered us $23K and then backed out. Carmax offered $23.5k (very surprising)

Ended up looking at the Camry Hybrid and the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. Was really impressed with
the Sonata (our 2nd car has been a 2007 and 2010 Camry hybrid for the last five years)
The Sonata with the ultimate package blew me away. Plus, with this open wound from the Leaf
fresh in my mind, they offer a LIFETIME warranty of the hybrid battery. Worked out a deal
on the phone (with the Leaf trade-in) and arrived at the dealership.

They said everything was good except that THREE of their buyers for the Leaf had all backed out!
I'm saying this to benefit other MNL members if they are considering trading in, the value
is falling like a rock. Waited for a couple of hours while they made calls (I could hear them)
finally found a buyer for $23K. Completed the deal and drove home in the new Sonata.
Despite reports on some websites, averaged 44.5mpg on the 30-mile trip. Its no Leaf, but hey
I don't have to worry about range any more.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the Leaf. The concept, the technology, the quietness of the ride,
(I'm signed up for 100% wind power so I was practically off the grid). But alas, I truly think
Nissan shot themselves in the foot by not responding aggresively to this issue. Moreover
I'd always felt that the true range (about 70 miles) was grossly misrepresented before
the EPA numbers came out.

Thats how my Leaf saga ended.
 
I understand your pain and think you made the right decision for you. Interesting that you didn't consider the Volt, though...

ravi100 said:
Well folks, it came down to this. After losing one bar 10 days ago we began a frantic
search for what our next step should be.
 
The Sonata Hybrid is a great car. In addition to my 11' LEAF, we got a 12' Sonata Hybrid... I am very concerned about my LEAF's capacity. No lost bar yet however, after 20,500 miles... :cool:
 
Sorry to loose you as an ev early adopter. My Leaf has lost capacity as well, not a bar yet but likely close. As I have a 2 car family, I can absorb some capacity loss, however, I don't like like less range like the rest of us. I just have to drive a bit slower to go the same 70 mile distance as before. Not ideal of course.

This new technology is not right for everyone. In contrast to you I won't sell my Leaf until there is a better EV to buy. Under no circumstances do I want to support the oil industry and the energy security war machine like I had been for so many years. The money I save each month not buying gas pays my car payment. I spend $30 a month to power my leaf and used to spend around $300 a month to power my prius I get free electricity at work as well.

Are the people who are selling after a lost bar overreacting or getting out while the getting is good? We'll see as this unfolds. One thing is for sure I'm not selling and I'm never going back to gas.
 
I can't blame you for selling. An eleven bar LEAF still has a great deal of utility, but the uncertainly as to future capacity losses over the coming years in the Texas heat could be unnerving.

Still, I'd find leasing a LEAF, or purchasing a liquid-cooled Volt or Ford Focus Electric, preferable to buying a hybrid. As much as I like our family's Prius, it still requires regular trips to the gas station and is nowhere near as much fun to drive as an EV.
 
EVDrive said:
Sorry to loose you as an ev early adopter. My Leaf has lost capacity as well, not a bar yet but likely close. As I have a 2 car family, I can absorb some capacity loss, however, I don't like like less range like the rest of us. I just have to drive a bit slower to go the same 70 mile distance as before. Not ideal of course.

This new technology is not right for everyone. In contrast to you I won't sell my Leaf until there is a better EV to buy. Under no circumstances do I want to support the oil industry and the energy security war machine like I had been for so many years. The money I save each month not buying gas pays my car payment. I spend $30 a month to power my leaf and used to spend around $300 a month to power my prius I get free electricity at work as well.

Are the people who are selling after a lost bar overreacting or getting out while the getting is good? We'll see as this unfolds. One thing is for sure I'm not selling and I'm never going back to gas.


+1
 
TomT said:
I understand your pain and think you made the right decision for you. Interesting that you didn't consider the Volt, though...

Having just leased a Volt to complement my Leaf...

+1
 
:roll: Over-react much? But hey, as long as you're happier it was obviously the right decision for you. The LEAF was probably not a good choice for you in the first place if you obsess over the unknown like that...
 
Somehow, I've NEVER heard fun and Prius used in the same sentence... That is one of the reasons why we have never considered buying one... We simply won't drive a toaster regularly...

abasile said:
As much as I like our family's Prius, it still requires regular trips to the gas station and is nowhere near as much fun to drive as an EV.
 
GeekEV said:
:roll: Over-react much? But hey, as long as you're happier it was obviously the right decision for you. The LEAF was probably not a good choice for you in the first place if you obsess over the unknown like that...

+1
 
ravi100 said:
Well folks, it came down to this. After losing one bar 10 days ago we began a frantic
search for what our next step should be. I'd like to share my thoughts with other Leaf fans
on MNL.

snip.....

Thats how my Leaf saga ended.

You done good. The Sonata is a beautiful piece of work, excellent choice.

I didn't lose a bar but I noticed almost immediately that the vehicle was beginning to lose usable range based upon my driving style and climate. This assessment resulted in my being called all kinds of names by the "true believer" set. Because I'm stupid, your Sonata Hybrid is my BMW Active E, which is yet another mess of a car, with its own group of irrational fanatics. Over at the "official" BMW Active E site, I think they compete in a giant tournament of sycophancy as if BMW's going to spring for a free lease or something. But, dayum is it fun to drive.

As I wrote about this car way back in March....

Clippy said:
The BMW seems (<-----------Please note) to have the ability to just make this trip without having to pull off the freeway and answer emails for an hour.

And my wife loves it.

Secret VSP confession, I like the Leaf better, but the BMW is more honest (can something be "more" honest?) We were told upfront we were beta testing, expect break downs (Push the "SOS" button, get a tow--BMW Assist) and the next car will be better. It is weird--e.g., there's a "Cigarette" lighter covered plug in the tiny boot. Must have been there for some test equipment or some such. The Leaf was sold as a finished product with a 100 mile range.

Want to kill the electric car? Keep telling everyone you see the Leaf is the perfect car for them and if I can do it so can (read must) you.

You didn't "roll over." It appears you're just a "first un-adopter."
 
TangoKilo said:
EVDrive said:
Sorry to loose you as an ev early adopter. My Leaf has lost capacity as well, not a bar yet but likely close. As I have a 2 car family, I can absorb some capacity loss, however, I don't like like less range like the rest of us. I just have to drive a bit slower to go the same 70 mile distance as before. Not ideal of course.

This new technology is not right for everyone. In contrast to you I won't sell my Leaf until there is a better EV to buy. Under no circumstances do I want to support the oil industry and the energy security war machine like I had been for so many years. The money I save each month not buying gas pays my car payment. I spend $30 a month to power my leaf and used to spend around $300 a month to power my prius I get free electricity at work as well.

Are the people who are selling after a lost bar overreacting or getting out while the getting is good? We'll see as this unfolds. One thing is for sure I'm not selling and I'm never going back to gas.
+1
+2

I'm in Phoenix and I already lost a bar. I purchased the Leaf and didn't lease. I'm not holding my breath waiting for Nissan to do something, but I also have a gas car so I can get by with less range. My 1 bar loss takes away my security blanket on the range, but it still hasn't taken away my ability to use it for 95% of my trips, so I'm still getting value out of it the same as before without being truly affected as much. This may change when the 2 bar loss or 3 bar loss comes in. But I'm hopeful that by then, some kind of solution will take place to address the issue.

And like what EVDrive said, I'm saving a lot of money on gas, probably close enough to make my monthly car payment if I had one (I actually paid cash for it). And I have already sworn to myself that I will never ever buy another gas car again. Not even a hybrid.

I truly believe that as the picture unfolds, if the situation gets worse, Nissan is going to be forced to address it whether they want to or not, or else all their investment in Smyrna and their EV program will go down the drain due to worsened sale figures. An indication of this is your own testimony about how your Hyundai dealership already lost 3 potential buyers for your trade-in at the drop of a hat and had to work hard to find another new (unsuspecting) buyer.

If Nissan allows this issue to get out of control, and I think it already has with more and more people starting to report 2 bar losses, it won't just be the Leafs in the hot states that will lose value. All Leafs will be tainted by association and nobody is going to want to buy a used or new Leaf due to the big unknown, and worse yet, due to Nissan's refusal to address the situation properly.

As witnessed by your own account here about 3 potential buyers backing out at the drop of a hat, words do spread quickly and people do do their own research before buying into new technologies. Sure, there will always be unsuspecting buyers here and there, and last year, Nissan was able to keep this cat out of the bag and made us all unsuspecting buyers. Unfortunately for them (and us), this year, the cat is now out of the bag.

So let's see if Nissan is going to be foolish enough to think that they can bury their heads in the sand and sweep this whole thing under the rug or not. If they continue to think that there will be plenty of unsuspecting buyers left to fill up their 150,000 Leaf a year capacity out of Smyrna, they'll be in for a big surprise. I'm hoping that Nissan will choose to do the smart thing and address the issue soon. Not just for OUR own good, but especially for THEIR own good.

Even if I were in a cool weather state and I'm in the market for an EV right now, I would not even consider the Leaf anymore simply because of their not having TMS on the Leaf battery or a capacity warranty to address this issue, even if my summer were mild. I'd be looking at other EV cars that have battery TMS or capacity warranty, just to be safe. Nissan is not the only EV game in town anymore like they were last year. There are new choices now and there will be even more new choices in the next few years.
 
Volusiano said:
As witnessed by your own account here about 3 potential buyers backing out at the drop of a hat, words do spread quickly and people do do their own research before buying into new technologies..


Googe "Nissan LEAF problems" and the AZ situation comes up as item number 6 on the first page. Hard to miss or ignore.
 
Nissan response that is "normal" IMO is not going to fly with regular buyers. June sale may not reflect that but even so I do not expect huge increase.
 
I personally know two people who had planned to buy a Leaf but changed their mind and went elsewhere because of the AZ and TX situation... Nissan needs to get a handle on this very soon, otherwise the damage may be long lasting. This is far more consequential than the Volt "fires."

EdmondLeaf said:
Nissan response that is "normal" IMO is not going to fly with regular buyers. June sale may not reflect that but even so I do not expect huge increase.
 
Volt fires were not really a problem, so GM was able to aggressively counter that immediately and came out high in the end.

These problems in the Leaf are real solid problems for which there is no defined solution yet. Hence the conundrum for Nissan. Converting AZ and TX Leafs to leases and such, are just band-aids. There should be a real technical/scientific solution if Nissan has to come out of the other side a winner.
 
Ravi; sorry to hear about your disappointment. i am guessing the Leaf's range loss was soon to put you at a disadvantage then? as far as getting out quickly before the value drops, that might have been your best move because i am relatively certain that the TN Leafs will really drop the value of used Leafs simply do to much greater availability.

i personally think you might have jumped the gun but you did not really elaborate on your personal transportation needs so all in all, its still a very personal decision to make and hope it turns out well for you
 
EVDrive said:
Sorry to loose you as an ev early adopter. ........ I'm never going back to gas.

+3

But for us is easier here. This year we had only one or two days over 80 degrees. QC are starting to pop up in Portland area. EV life is good :D .
 
GeekEV said:
:roll: Over-react much? But hey, as long as you're happier it was obviously the right decision for you. The LEAF was probably not a good choice for you in the first place if you obsess over the unknown like that...

This is petty, mean, and passive aggressive.

I can appreciate what Shrink did in trading in his Leaf for a new lease, and we may do the same at some point, but I also understand someone getting rid of their EV entirely at this point and waiting for the next generation, switching to a Volt, or buying a straight hybrid.

No one is happy about this situation, but let's try to keep the discourse friendly, or at least civil.
 
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