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keydiver
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:04 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:27 pm

Hopefully we can put to bed the false rumor that 2013 leafs have a better battery. Or at least acknowledge that the difference isn't worth paying for.


This is exactly what I have saying [fearing] all along, that the minor tweaks that Nissan did to the chemistry in 2013 will actually do little other than cheat hundreds of more people out of a free battery replacement. We are already hearing from lots of 2011/2012 owners who were just over 60,000 miles when they lost their 4th bar, and Nissan won't give them a new battery, and I have a feeling this is just going to add to that segment of 4 Bar losers.
2012 Glacier Pearl SL - Delivered December 8, 2011
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2006 Prius with Hymotion 5kWh PHEV upgrade
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Valdemar
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:16 pm

There is also a theory that the battery "improvements" didn't get to the assembly line until mid-year.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

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TomT
Posts: 10601
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Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:35 pm

Palmer said, on more than one occasion, that the changes to the 2013 battery were primarily to lower manufacturing costs, not to improve the battery in any way...

keydiver wrote:
Hopefully we can put to bed the false rumor that 2013 leafs have a better battery. Or at least acknowledge that the difference isn't worth paying for.
This is exactly what I have saying [fearing] all along, that the minor tweaks that Nissan did to the chemistry in 2013 will actually do little other than cheat hundreds of more people out of a free battery replacement.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

NissanLeafCamper
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 1:46 pm
Delivery Date: 01 May 2013
Location: Los Angeles California

Just joined the 11 bar 'Owner's Club' today

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:42 pm

Just bought the leaf, I think about 2 or 3 weeks ago and today the 12 little blocky bars on the far right came down to 11. I guess this will affect resale value? It is a 20113 used nissan leaf 23952 miles. Hoping it will stay at 11 and not suddenly go to 10 after a few more weeks.

Good times at the 12 bar club :D good times... :) .... kind of short .. :(

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keydiver
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:57 am

Bar loss isn't a sudden event. If it took 24,000 miles to lose the first 15% capacity, it may take another 10,000 miles to lose the next bar (6.25%).
2012 Glacier Pearl SL - Delivered December 8, 2011
10kW Solar PV for recharging!
2006 Prius with Hymotion 5kWh PHEV upgrade
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abasile
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Re: Just joined the 11 bar 'Owner's Club' today

Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:55 am

NissanLeafCamper wrote:Just bought the leaf, I think about 2 or 3 weeks ago and today the 12 little blocky bars on the far right came down to 11. I guess this will affect resale value? It is a 20113 used nissan leaf 23952 miles. Hoping it will stay at 11 and not suddenly go to 10 after a few more weeks.

Good times at the 12 bar club :D good times... :) .... kind of short .. :(

Note that the remaining bars are worth less than half of the top battery bar. Whatever you do, don't "baby" the battery like many of us did. Have fun driving the LEAF and treat it like a normal car. You'll quite possibly lose four out of 12 battery bars before five years or 60K miles, and get that defective 2013 battery replaced under warranty.

I'm not saying to abuse the battery; just don't go out of your way to be gentle on it. Earlier in my LEAF ownership, I limited my power on mountain climbs, took extra steps like zealously parking in the shade to keep the battery cool, and kept the SOC (state of charge) as low as practicable in warm weather. Combined with my cooler mountain climate, I'm left with a battery that's too good for the warranty but significantly more degraded than initially expected. In any case, while I try to take reasonable care of my battery, I no longer "baby" it.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

Valdemar
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Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:32 am

It's ironic, but I find myself driving at 80 mph more often these days than when my Leaf was new despite losing 30% range, I know I have to charge on the go anyway, so why bother. Thankfully there is many more charging options these days than 4 years ago.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

dhanson865
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Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: Just joined the 11 bar 'Owner's Club' today

Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:58 am

NissanLeafCamper wrote:Just bought the leaf, I think about 2 or 3 weeks ago and today the 12 little blocky bars on the far right came down to 11. I guess this will affect resale value? It is a 20113 used nissan leaf 23952 miles. Hoping it will stay at 11 and not suddenly go to 10 after a few more weeks.

Good times at the 12 bar club :D good times... :) .... kind of short .. :(


can you give us the last 6 digits of the VIN and the manufacturing date from the driver door jamb label?
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss
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TomT
Posts: 10601
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Leaf Number: 000360
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Re: Just joined the 11 bar 'Owner's Club' today

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:50 am

Exactly! About a year and half ago, I realized that my only hope of making the battery warranty was to try and speed up degradation. I started charging to 100%, leaving it there for a while, keeping the battery as warm as possible, and driving it harder. If I didn't make the warranty cutoff, I was planning to turn it in at end of lease anyway so I didn't really care... Well, I dropped the fourth bar with 17 miles to go, got a new Lizard battery, and extended the lease... If I hadn't pushed it, I KNOW I would not have made the battery capacity warranty cutoff mileage.

abasile wrote:Earlier in my LEAF ownership, I limited my power on mountain climbs, took extra steps like zealously parking in the shade to keep the battery cool, and kept the SOC (state of charge) as low as practicable in warm weather. Combined with my cooler mountain climate, I'm left with a battery that's too good for the warranty but significantly more degraded than initially expected. In any case, while I try to take reasonable care of my battery, I no longer "baby" it.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

NissanLeafCamper
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 1:46 pm
Delivery Date: 01 May 2013
Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Just joined the 11 bar 'Owner's Club' today

Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:49 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
NissanLeafCamper wrote:Just bought the leaf, I think about 2 or 3 weeks ago and today the 12 little blocky bars on the far right came down to 11. I guess this will affect resale value? It is a 20113 used nissan leaf 23952 miles. Hoping it will stay at 11 and not suddenly go to 10 after a few more weeks.

Good times at the 12 bar club :D good times... :) .... kind of short .. :(


can you give us the last 6 digits of the VIN and the manufacturing date from the driver door jamb label?



Yes of course I can !

VIN: 1N4AZ0CP5DC405736

And the manufacturer date on the door jamb is:

03/13

Should I start sleeping inside my leaf with the A/C on to speed up the degradation process? :)

-edit-

Would love to sleep inside the leaf with the A/C on. Would save me money since I recharge it while @ working free charging stations.

abasile wrote:Note that the remaining bars are worth less than half of the top battery bar. Whatever you do, don't "baby" the battery like many of us did. Have fun driving the LEAF and treat it like a normal car. You'll quite possibly lose four out of 12 battery bars before five years or 60K miles, and get that defective 2013 battery replaced under warranty.

I'm not saying to abuse the battery; just don't go out of your way to be gentle on it. Earlier in my LEAF ownership, I limited my power on mountain climbs, took extra steps like zealously parking in the shade to keep the battery cool, and kept the SOC (state of charge) as low as practicable in warm weather. Combined with my cooler mountain climate, I'm left with a battery that's too good for the warranty but significantly more degraded than initially expected. In any case, while I try to take reasonable care of my battery, I no longer "baby" it.


whaaat? How can the rest of the 11 bars be worth less than half the value of the 12th bar? Sounds like I just have a HUGE loss to my electric leaf? Is it really that bad? If so, wow... I have some pretty weird luck lol. I got this car as a replacement to my van which has a bad transmission, and before that I had a red geo prizm that did not have an original motor... but a 'used' motor with unknown history. Wow, wow ~

Sounds pretty crazy that you had a leaf, baby it, then ended up still with bad battery capacity. I actually run the leaf now in ECO mode all the time because, uh, well.... heck, i don't know anymore :(. Why am I running it in ECO mode? I should be driving it in "DRAG" mode 8-)

I'm actually afraid of running the leaf in "D"rag mode because a few days ago I went by here http://abc7.com/news/woman-killed-in-cr ... ad/878184/ at about 6am which was about less than 1 hour before that happened :(.

Would sleeping inside the leaf 8hrs plus naps help draing the battery quicker? Plus also driving it a lot, of course.

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