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mwalsh
Posts: 9467
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:59 pm

NissanLeafCamper wrote:What about loading it up to maximum load capacity, running it in 'D'rag mode plus also sleeping inside with the A/C on constantly? Wouldn't that constant demand of charging and discharging the battery cause it some degradation? Or would that only destroy the motor/A/C unit? :arrow:



On a 2011/12...the opposite - getting as close as you dare to naked and then cranking the heat to 90 degrees. Assuming you're already in a place where the ambients are below 90, of course.

But as you do get close to 90, the climate control gets more efficient when all it has to do is maintain temperature, so be aware of that.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 70,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Michelin MXV4 tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

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abasile
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1864
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:12 pm

All of us here have better ways to spend our time than endlessly trying to cycle LEAF batteries. Going out of my way to accelerate degradation isn't my cup of tea, and it's too late for me anyway. At 57K miles and 10/12 battery bars, I have zero expectation of a warranty replacement unless perhaps the pack fails before 100K miles / 8 years, which is doubtful.

To expand on earlier statements, if a pre-2015 LEAF battery is going to degrade anyway, one might as well enjoy driving the car. While driving locally and not range constrained, one can appreciate the fact that, while a LEAF is no Tesla, it can accelerate up hills in a seemingly effortless manner. Here in the mountains, we regularly get visitors who feel they need to slow to 25mph for every curve. From time to time, one of those visitors will actually use a turnout, thus allowing a following LEAF driver to instantaneously pull 80 kW and blissfully accelerate to the desired speed in silence, without so much as a gear change. Admittedly this practice is somewhat wasteful, but far less so than if driving an ICE, and there is certainly value in being able to enjoy life.
2011 LEAF at 69K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 89K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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Stanton
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Posts: 1931
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:18 pm

TomT wrote:The A/C is actually quite efficient, especially on the 2011 and 2012 cars, and doesn't pull that much energy... Running it in D mode or at maximum capacity is not going to have much affect...


True that...and a great thing in Texas!
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

Roadburner440
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm
Location: Hampton, VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:11 pm

Dropped my second capacity bar today. Car was manufactured August, 2011; been in my possession 40 months; 33495 miles. LEAF DD shows me at full charge AHr: 51.2598; Hx: 72.80; 90.9619% at full charge; 391v. Heres to hoping it keeps the downward trend over the next 20 months.. Think if I do make the warranty it will be by the skin of my teeth.
Steve
2012 Cayenne Red Leaf SL #16790
2016 Chevrolet Volt LT Kinetic Blue
Turned in: 2012 Chevy Volt #2395

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Just joined the 11 bar 'Owner's Club' today

Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:21 am

mwalsh wrote:IMHO, pack heat is (nearly) all that matters (calendar losses too). Unless you can keep pack temps above capacity loss thresholds nothing else that you'd except to encourage it has much (if any) effect.

I agree.
Capacity loss is only significant if the pack is above 90F in my experience.

That mostly happens when the outside temperatures are above 90F.

In those conditions and driving the LEAF fast and then charging back to 100% it is easy to see the highest battery temperature at 109F.
Capacity is really dropping at that point.
Could possibly see 0.5 Ah drop in a single day.

But the LEAF battery is like your cell phone in that it also heats up when heavily discharged.
Temperature climbs quite a bit in dropping from Low Battery Warning to Turtle at 0.4 kWh remaining.
Not much temperature climb after Turtle because High Voltage Disconnect occurs at 0.3 kWh remaining.

Want to lose capacity?
You need high ambients, then drive it hard, deep discharge to Turtle, then charge back to 100% (using DCQC if available).
Repeat as much as you can on high ambient days.

Just be careful.
If you over do it, you could put the temperature into the red zone.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

Roadburner440
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm
Location: Hampton, VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:08 am

I don't discharge mine to turtle, but usually dip a good way past LBW. Then charge it back to 100% in direct sunlight. I usually see pack temps in the 104/105 range with summer in full swing though. Wanted to DCQC it yesterday but didn't need to so didn't do it. At $5 a pop unless I actually need to do it I am not going to.
Steve
2012 Cayenne Red Leaf SL #16790
2016 Chevrolet Volt LT Kinetic Blue
Turned in: 2012 Chevy Volt #2395

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RegGuheert
Posts: 5522
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:50 pm

Roadburner440 wrote:Dropped my second capacity bar today. Car was manufactured August, 2011; been in my possession 40 months; 33495 miles. LEAF DD shows me at full charge AHr: 51.2598; Hx: 72.80; 90.9619% at full charge; 391v.
Even though my AHr reading is a bit higher than yours at about 53.1, my Hx number is much lower at 64.0%. I wonder why. Have you had the P3227 update? (I have.) How many quick charges do you have on your LEAF? (I only have 3.) I suspect that the quick charges reduce the resistance of the pack, so if you have many, that might make a difference.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Roadburner440
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm
Location: Hampton, VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:19 am

I do have the P3227 update. Only done 1 quick charge ever on the car. Was the only time I have ever found a station around here working. Was about to do a DCQC for the second time the other day, but wound up not needing it. At $5 won't be a regular occurrence except for emergencies. Other than that just straight L2 charging its entire life.
Steve
2012 Cayenne Red Leaf SL #16790
2016 Chevrolet Volt LT Kinetic Blue
Turned in: 2012 Chevy Volt #2395

Reddy
Posts: 1414
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:20 am

RegGuheert wrote:
Roadburner440 wrote:Dropped my second capacity bar today. Car was manufactured August, 2011; been in my possession 40 months; 33495 miles. LEAF DD shows me at full charge AHr: 51.2598; Hx: 72.80; 90.9619% at full charge; 391v.
Even though my AHr reading is a bit higher than yours at about 53.1, my Hx number is much lower at 64.0%. I wonder why. Have you had the P3227 update? (I have.) How many quick charges do you have on your LEAF? (I only have 3.) I suspect that the quick charges reduce the resistance of the pack, so if you have many, that might make a difference.
Well, it's my time to report in. I dropped my 2nd bar yesterday (just shy of 4 yrs) after a blistering summer (well, it's not done yet, but we had 111 F in June and will have broken just about every record). I charged to 100% and let it sit for a couple of hours at 95 F, so that must have pushed it over. I had 11 bars after the charge and couple mile drive, but then on 10 bars on the next start up. This morning I pulled the LeafSpy stats (but not at 100% SOC: 51.67 Ahr, 78% SOH, 60.60% Hx, 63.6% SOC, 3.987 V, 82 F, and just a touch over 28,000 miles. Based on my linear decay curve since my 1st bar dropped around 5/28/15, it looks like I'm scheduled for losing bar #3 right around the 5 yr mark. I've done two long trips with lots of DCQCs, in the previous two summers. Probably no more of those for me. This Leaf is now strictly for in-town use as the closest DCQC is 85 mi away.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

palmermd
Posts: 2423
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:05 pm

As of August 1st 2015 we lost our second bar. We now sit at 51.51Ahr, 78%SOH and Hx 60.23%, 37,016 miles, 3245 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges.

Not likely to lose the other two in the next 8 months, but you never know.

palmermd wrote:... As of today, 1st of June 2014 we have 54.91Ahr SOH 83% and Hx 68.63%, 25,382 miles, 1890 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges. ...
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss
Second Bar Loss
Third Bar Loss

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