palmermd
Posts: 2267
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:58 am

vegastar wrote: They even have a procedure to discharge the battery where a fully charged battery takes 230 minutes to discharge.


I have a simpler procedure. Take it out on the freeway at 70mph and it will only take 60 minutes at most to get down to 2 bars or less.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss

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garygid
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Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:38 am

Two new Bars, or two Old-Bars?

There is about a 1.4 bar difference. Two full New-Bars (possibly in the April 2011 Service Manual) is about 1.7 bars over LBW, whereas two full Old-Bars (would be used in the original Fall 2010 Service Manual) is only about 0.3 bars above LBW.

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Discharging (at roughly L2 rates) before the test, and using L2 after the test to get the customer's car recharged (enough to get home safely), can make this Cell-Diagnostics test take 6 or more hours.

If one lives close to the dealer, arriving with the "required" low readings, and being able to get back home on the remaining 2 bars ... would be optimal for timing.

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Doing the test at low battery would usually make a "bad" cell-pair more obvious, but more-or-less assumes that the Pack is well Balanced.

Doing the test near FULL would check how effectively the Pack balancing was being accomplished.

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We need to log (low profile, or with a sympathetic dealer) the EV CAN bus during this Diagnostic so that we can attempt to find out how one (we) could "request" the cell-pair voltages.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
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mwalsh
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Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:09 am

vegastar wrote:
And in the service manual it says that the battery must be discharged to 2 bars for the "CELL VOLTAGE LOSS INSPECTION". They even have a procedure to discharge the battery where a fully charged battery takes 230 minutes to discharge.



Yes. My recommendation is to charge the night before to only 80%, if you're going to be going to the dealership directly in the morning. Unless, of course, you can't make it there on only 80% charge!
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 54,200 miles; ~186 Gids; 9 bars; 50-55 miles per charge.
Tinted windows.
Michelin MXV4 tires.
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AV L2 EVSE.

adric22
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:01 am

mwalsh wrote:Yes. My recommendation is to charge the night before to only 80%, if you're going to be going to the dealership directly in the morning. Unless, of course, you can't make it there on only 80% charge!


Just FYI, as the original poster of this thread, my dealership is only about 7 miles from my house and since I took city streets instead of the highway to get there my Leaf was actually reading 100% charge and 105 miles of range when I arrived.

Whenever I get another chance to go, I'll run the car down to three bars and then head towards the dealer, hoping to make it to 2 bars when I arrive. As long as they charge it for 30 minutes or so, it should be a very worry-free ride home. The only disadvantage is that my car will be drained and won't be able to plan any longer trips for that day until a full recharge.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

kolmstead
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Leaf Number: 000257
Location: Ridgecrest, California (100 miles east of Bakersfield)

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:42 am

I'm expecting this kind of confusion when I take my car in a week from now for its annual test. I asked if the car needed to be at a particular SOC, and they said no. Then they told me that there was no battery test needed, but if I insisted, they would hook up the Consult diagnostic unit. What'll you bet that they try and charge me for the service?

I told them that the owner's manual and warranty manual clearly state that annual battery tests are required in order to keep the battery warranty in effect. To be fair, my LEAF will probably be the first one that has come in for the battery test; it was only the second LEAF that they sold.

Looks like I'll have to rent a car dolly. I could drive the LEAF down to Palmdale, but then I'd be stranded without a car until the next day. Too bad; the 85 mile drive down would guarantee that I'd arrive with a low SOC.

-Karl
Last edited by kolmstead on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

91040
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:34 am

Good reason for dealers to have QC.
1st Capacity Bar loss 30,302mi 16.25mo
2nd- 48,918mi 25.5mo 51.5Ah
3rd- 73,205mi 36.5mo 46.9Ah 71%SOH 50.9Hx
4th- 86,468mi 43mo 42.61Ah 64%SOH 43.79Hx
99k miles- 49.5mo 39.24Ah 59%SOH 38.35Hx

SanDust
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Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:02 am

The OP's dealer probably doesn't understand the procedures. Given a requirement that a customer arrive at the dealer with only two bars of charge is absurdly onerous, it's very hard to believe that Nissan doesn't have a procedure for testing batteries at all SOCs. My guess is we don't hear about this again.

vegastar
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Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:08 pm

Gary,

The SM I have says 2 bars wich I suppose are old bars. What is more important is that it mentions to discharge the battery until the lowest cell pair reads 3,712V. For a perfectly balanced pack this is 356,4V wich is the voltage that my car has when it reaches LBW. This is were the knee of the voltage starts and makes it a lot easier to see unbalanced/damaged cells.
2011 Nissan LEAF since 2011-07-07, 87000 km on 2015-02-28. 10 bars, 182gids@80%charge, 51.7Ah.

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:18 pm

SanDust wrote:The OP's dealer probably doesn't understand the procedures. Given a requirement that a customer arrive at the dealer with only two bars of charge is absurdly onerous, it's very hard to believe that Nissan doesn't have a procedure for testing batteries at all SOCs. My guess is we don't hear about this again.
This has been an illuminating discussion, but I think the obvious conclusion is that the required annual battery report is not the same as the CELL VOLTAGE LOSS INSPECTION. Here is what the Warranty Information booklet says:
You are required to perform annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of 12 months, 24 months, ...

See? They don't even call it an inspection. It sounds to me like it is just a log readout. That could be done at any charge level. Now maybe the OP specifically asked for an inspection or test, or maybe the service department misunderstood the warranty requirement, but the bottom line is that the annual report has no onerous requirement but probably won't tell you much. I expect we will hear about this "2 bar" inspection again, but only in the context of a battery which is acting up.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Dealer couldn't perform battery test

Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:48 pm

vegastar wrote:Gary,

The SM I have says 2 bars wich I suppose are old bars. What is more important is that it mentions to discharge the battery until the lowest cell pair reads 3,712V. For a perfectly balanced pack this is 356,4V wich is the voltage that my car has when it reaches LBW. This is were the knee of the voltage starts and makes it a lot easier to see unbalanced/damaged cells.



this makes sense
44,598 miles on 2011 LEAF (retired) 2013 LEAF;23,340 miles. Ah; 61.94, Hx; 95.82% kwh 20.8 @70% estimate; 120,847 miles
May 2015 Drive Stats. Corolla;646 miles, $59.43, LEAF;1095.8 miles $19.72
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com

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