2019 Leaf Charge Timer Bug

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ClarksonCote

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
12
Hi all,

Just got my 2019 Leaf, I seem to be having an issue with the charge timers where the time is not calculated properly and I end up with a full charge earlier than when I want.

For example, I want to have an 80% charge at 5pm, so I set my Timer End to be 6:20pm and my timer start to be 6:10pm. I then turn on "Prioritize Full Battery" or whatever it is, so that it'll calculate when the charge should start, to be complete by 6:20pm.

The problem is it seems to be calculating based on a 3.3kW rate, even though I'm plugging into 6.6kW chargers, and have charge estimate displays set to 6.6kW.

So today, for example, I plugged into some work chargers after lunch, it was calculating a 3.3kW time (I assume?) so it immediately started charging, and then recalculated and said I'd be done by 4:30pm, even though I wanted it to not finish until 6:20pm. So I had to then go back into the car, start it back up, disable the timer, and re-enable the timer, and then it properly calculated the start time based on the charger I am currently plugged into.

Surely there must be an easier way than getting out, plugging in the car, going back in, turning it on, and shutting the timer, turning the car back off, and then turning it back on, right?! What am I missing?

Also, I'm enraged that Nissan doesn't just have a timer to stop at a certain percentage. The Bolt EV and Teslas all allow this. I realize Nissan is scarred from the EPAs decision years ago to base their range on an average of the two SOC settings, but that was because Nissan was actively encouraging people to use the lower setting, not because the setting existed.

Thanks in advance!
 
Set the timer for an End time ONLY, with no start time. Making it a few minutes after you leave will avoid having it end too early. If you want an 80% charge, you can set the end time "too early" by about 25%. Just keep in mind that it may not actually stop charging at that point, so this is best used for trips. Manually unplugging it works best for charges not involving using the car.
 
Try setting just the end time about one hour *after* you plan to start using the car. You many have to fiddle some but I'm guessing that you do not care if the battery ends at exactly 80% SoC.

This approach also has the benefit of max charging close to the time you are going to use the car. That is a good thing (tm) since time spent at high SoC is important in the battery degradation game, particularly in the summer.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Set the timer for an End time ONLY, with no start time. Making it a few minutes after you leave will avoid having it end too early. If you want an 80% charge, you can set the end time "too early" by about 25%. Just keep in mind that it may not actually stop charging at that point, so this is best used for trips. Manually unplugging it works best for charges not involving using the car.

On the new Leaf (2018 and 2019?) there is no ability to only set an end timer. If a timer is enabled, then it has a start and an end time.
 
SageBrush said:
Try setting just the end time about one hour *after* you plan to start using the car. You many have to fiddle some but I'm guessing that you do not care if the battery ends at exactly 80% SoC.

This approach also has the benefit of max charging close to the time you are going to use the car. That is a good thing (tm) since time spent at high SoC is important in the battery degradation game, particularly in the summer.

Maybe I described this poorly in my post, but that's exactly what I did. In a nutshell:
- Set start time to 10 minutes before end time
- Set to full charge having priority (the combination of this and the step above is to get around the fact that the new Leaf can't just set an end timer only)
- Set end time to an hour after I planned to start using the car.

But again, for some reason the car was calculating charge time based on a lower charge rate, and so it started much earlier than it needed to.

I'm trying to find a way to set this that doesn't cause me to have to go in and fiddle with it constantly every single time I want to charge. Maybe the answer is just that Nissan did a horrible job with this functionality and that's not possible. I'm hoping someone can show me otherwise though.
 
ClarksonCote said:
LeftieBiker said:
Set the timer for an End time ONLY, with no start time. Making it a few minutes after you leave will avoid having it end too early. If you want an 80% charge, you can set the end time "too early" by about 25%. Just keep in mind that it may not actually stop charging at that point, so this is best used for trips. Manually unplugging it works best for charges not involving using the car.

On the new Leaf (2018 and 2019?) there is no ability to only set an end timer. If a timer is enabled, then it has a start and an end time.

Are you sure? I haven't tried this yet on my 2018, but it would certainly be idiotic of Nissan if true. So, I guess that means it's true, eh? ;)

Ok, so set a start and end time that gets you to 100% charge either 6 hours (L-1) or one hour (L-2) after you plan to either use the car or unplug it. L-1 charging adds a little more than 3% charge per hour, while L-2, depending on amperage, adds, again roughly, between 14% and 21% charge per hour. (Feel free to correct my math, folks.)

OK, having read the new post, I understand what you want. And here's the Bad News: you don't have to fiddle with the charge timer at all, but you do have to calculate the charge rate applied to the current SOC, and then unplug the car when the desired state of charge is reached. That's what I do now, albeit with L-1. It's often easier with L-1, actually, as I'm usually unplugging it many hours later, and can either ask someone else to do it, or plug it in so I'll be unplugging it at a convenient time. Isn't Nissan engineering great...?
 
Disclaimer: I looked at the manual but I don't have a 2019 Model to play with.

The manual says
• When the charging timer is set, the charging system calculates the estimated time
to charge the Li-ion battery based on the
electrical power supplied in the last
charging using the timer, and the start
time and end time are displayed.
So that may explain the apparent car calculation using 3 kW, and perhaps the problem will self correct after a charging episode or two at your routine charging spot.


2, can you set the start timer to say ... 60 minutes before your routine departure time ? Presuming use of a 6 kW EVSE, that setting should work for you so long as your battery is below 70% when you plug-in.

I agree that the timer functions of the LEAF are ... not elegant. But keep on trying.

----
By they way, presuming that the software is not simply buggy, it may help to understand the underlying logic. I'll guess it goes about like this:
1. Priority given to reach 100% SoC so that the driver does not run out of charge or start the day with less charge than intended.
2. Second priority given to start charging at start time to let owners take advantage of TOU billing, unless it conflicts with (1). This is why the car may start charging earlier than the start time but not later.
 
SageBrush said:
Disclaimer: I looked at the manual but I don't have a 2019 Model to play with.

The manual says
• When the charging timer is set, the charging system calculates the estimated time
to charge the Li-ion battery based on the
electrical power supplied in the last
charging using the timer, and the start
time and end time are displayed.
So that may explain the apparent car calculation using 3 kW, and perhaps the problem will self correct after a charging episode or two at your routine charging spot.


2, can you set the start timer to say ... 60 minutes before your routine departure time ? Presuming use of a 6 kW EVSE, that setting should work for you so long as your battery is below 70% when you plug-in.

I agree that the timer functions of the LEAF are ... not elegant. But keep on trying.

----
By they way, presuming that the software is not simply buggy, it may help to understand the underlying logic. I'll guess it goes about like this:
1. Priority given to reach 100% SoC so that the driver does not run out of charge
2. Second priority given to start charging at start time to let owners take advantage of TOU billing, unless it conflicts with (1). This is why the car may start charging earlier than the start time but not later.

Thanks, that's a nice find, and possibly what my issue was here. (I say "possibly" only because there's other carryovers in the manual from the first Gen Leaf, like being able to only set an End Timer which just isn't possible.) :)

I'll see if subsequent charges at this location properly reflect the time going forward.

My plan is to set the Start time to 10 minutes before the End time, and then select battery full as having priority (as I understand it, this causes the car to start charging before the start time, but still finish at the end time -- a bit of a hack to work around not having an End Time Only option). Then I'm going to set the end time to be an hour or more after my actual planned departure time, which should get me something near 80% SOC when I leave instead of always charging to 100%.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I like the idea of not charging to 100% all the time given that Lithium Ion batteries don't like to be at either charging extreme (high or low) for long periods of time.
 
ClarksonCote said:
My plan is to set the Start time to 10 minutes before the End time, and then select battery full as having priority. Then I'm going to set the end time to be an hour or more after my actual planned departure time, which should get me something near 80% SOC when I leave instead of always charging to 100%.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I like the idea of not charging to 100% all the time given that Lithium Ion batteries don't like to be at either charging extreme (high or low) for long periods of time.
You are not over-thinking at all. The LEAF battery needs all the help it can get. One other tip: If at all possible, do not park the car in a closed garage in the summer. That hampers its battery cooling.

I *think* that the charge tapers towards 100% to allow cell balancing. I've been presuming that the car takes a taper into account when it calculates the time needed to charge although I have not verified this is so. This is probably why you keep thinking that a 70 minute window is enough while Lefty and I suggested a wider window.
 
SageBrush said:
ClarksonCote said:
My plan is to set the Start time to 10 minutes before the End time, and then select battery full as having priority. Then I'm going to set the end time to be an hour or more after my actual planned departure time, which should get me something near 80% SOC when I leave instead of always charging to 100%.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I like the idea of not charging to 100% all the time given that Lithium Ion batteries don't like to be at either charging extreme (high or low) for long periods of time.
You are not over-thinking at all. The LEAF battery needs all the help it can get. One other tip: If at all possible, do not park the car in a closed garage in the summer. That hampers its battery cooling.

I *think* that the charge tapers towards 100% to allow cell balancing. I've been presuming that the car takes a taper into account when it calculates the time needed to charge although I have not verified this is so. This is probably why you keep thinking that a 70 minute window is enough while Lefty and I suggested a wider window.

Yeah, I do think there is a lot of tapering. I'm going to increase to a 2 hour window and see if that helps. The only reason why I question my 80% logic a bit and whether it'll help is a post I found here where at least one person was being very judicious here with 80% charging on a 2016 Leaf, yet lost a capacity bar far quicker than expected. Meanwhile, other people charging to 100% all the time did not lose a capacity bar nearly as quickly. Just don't know enough about those datapoints though, need to do some more research.

To go even further off on a (completely unrelated, probably deserves another thread) tangent, I wish the ePedal could make use of stronger regen. My 2013 Volt with a 16kWh battery could use up to 60kW of regen. My 2019 Leaf with a 40kWh battery can only do 30kW according to the displays. It's clear when ePedal is enabled compared to B mode that it is slowing faster and using the brake. I want a mode that is "ePedal without brake usage" or as close to that as I can get. ;)
 
ClarksonCote said:
a post I found here where at least one person was being very judicious here with 80% charging on a 2016 Leaf, yet lost a capacity bar far quicker than expected.
Many of the reports of early capacity bar loss in 30 kWh battery models are apparently an artefact from a BMS bug that Nissan has since offered a TSB to fix. There are multiple variables at play, and anecdotes suffer from incomplete and misinformation. Moreover, I am pretty sure that Nissan packs have a fair amount of variation in quality straight out of the factory.

General battery principles always apply.

On the topic of extending battery life, I avoid parking on hot asphalt. I either park in shade or off asphalt. We have recently moved to a hotter climate and our LEAF spends most afternoons parked at home so I intend to give it a bed of vegetable matter in the summer. If I parked on concrete I would paint it a reflecting color if not shaded.
 
SageBrush said:
ClarksonCote said:
a post I found here where at least one person was being very judicious here with 80% charging on a 2016 Leaf, yet lost a capacity bar far quicker than expected.
Many of the reports of early capacity bar loss in 30 kWh battery models are apparently an artefact from a BMS bug that Nissan has since offered a TSB to fix. There are multiple variables at play, and anecdotes suffer from incomplete and misinformation. Moreover, I am pretty sure that Nissan packs have a fair amount of variation in quality straight out of the factory.

General battery principles always apply.

On the topic of extending battery life, I avoid parking on hot asphalt. I either park in shade or off asphalt. We have recently moved to a hotter climate and our LEAF spends most afternoons parked at home so I intend to give it a bed of vegetable matter in the summer. If I parked on concrete I would paint it a reflecting color if not shaded.

Hmm, well hopefully the issue isn't applicable with the 40kWh packs then that the TSB fixed.

I park at work in the summertime before the sun starts to bake, so the asphalt should be pretty shaded before I ever get there. Although I'm a bit frustrated that I would even have to consider such an issue, I've been spoiled by the active TMS in the Volt. In the end though, in my region (CNY) I don't think hot asphalt is a huge driver either way.
 
ClarksonCote said:
In the end though, in my region (CNY) I don't think hot asphalt is a huge driver either way.
That would not be a smart conclusion. Asphalt in the direct CNY summer sun gets damned hot.
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
ClarksonCote said:
In the end though, in my region (CNY) I don't think hot asphalt is a huge driver either way.
That would not be a smart conclusion. Asphalt in the direct CNY summer sun gets damned hot.

FUD, FUD, FUD. Keep Spreading it.

Are you saying that asphalt doesn't get hot in Summer, that hot asphalt won't heat the battery pack enough to matter, or do you just like the acronym "FUD"...? My take is that several factors are involved, like ambient temp, duration of time spent on hot pavement, wind if any, etc. In the worse cases I agree with Sagebrush. In other cases I lean more toward agreeing with you - minus the FUD accusation.
 
As an update here, the estimates still seem far too conservative, although I'm wondering if the Leaf not only remembers the last charging session rate, but does so on a day-of-the-week basis? I haven't used 3.3kW charging again, but the last time I charged on a Friday I had used 3.3kW charging. So maybe it remembers the charging rate for each day of the week?

Shrug. Hoping to eventually figure this out so I don't have to choose between lots of manual programming each day or a 100% charged battery all the time.
 
I just downloaded the 2019 owner manual--it looks like Nissan made some significant changes to the charge timers. There is a new setting called "Full charge has priority" which may be causing the issues you are having. If that setting is ON, the charge start time will be advanced (will start charging sooner than set time) if it would not reach full charge by the set end time. Also, charging will continue beyond the end time to reach full charge. Therefore, I believe that setting needs to be OFF to achieve your desire to stop charging below 100%. Another new feature is the ability to set timers to be active only at home if you have set your home location in the navigation system.
 
GerryAZ said:
I just downloaded the 2019 owner manual--it looks like Nissan made some significant changes to the charge timers. There is a new setting called "Full charge has priority" which may be causing the issues you are having. If that setting is ON, the charge start time will be advanced (will start charging sooner than set time) if it would not reach full charge by the set end time. Also, charging will continue beyond the end time to reach full charge. Therefore, I believe that setting needs to be OFF to achieve your desire to stop charging below 100%.

That is the same with the 2018. When that "Full charge has priority" feature is ON, charging will aim for 100% no matter what you set for the timer.

As for lower charge rate display, I believe this is referring to the charge time estimator, "Charge Time (Est.)", screen. The manual is not helpful with this feature. I had to play around with it and figure it out when I first got the car.
Hitting "OK" at the "Charge Time (Est.)" screen allows you to jump to the "Charge Time Screen" setting to see what kW value is selected (ON).
Basically:
[*] When the car is not charging, this "Charge Time (Est.)" screen shows you the estimated charge time vs percentage based on the kW value selected under settings.
[*] When the car starts charging, this "Charge Time (Est.)" screen automatically adjusts to show you the estimated charge time vs percentage based on the EVSE's output (e.g., 6.6 kW for an L2), despite what you selected under settings.

I keep my "Charge Time Screen" setting at "6.6kW(AC 200-240V)", since that is the only type of EVSE output that I use. It helps me estimate my charge times, and seems to be very accurate with both time & battery percentage estimations.
 
H All,
There is also a setting that disables the charge timer unless you are at a set Home location. I think this is off by default and you also have had to enter a Home address. This is to avoid having to press the Charge Immediately Button each time you want to charge away from home. The setting is in EV settings on the Driver's display.
With this set to on timers are ignored unless you are Home.

I find mine (2019) very accurate. I am using L1 but the estimated time to 75% hits within 1% of the estimated time.
I set an end time at my usual leave for work time and the start based on the estimate. Full Charge Priority is off. As i understand, as has been stated, That will ensure a full charge regardless of the timer settings. Not sure of the application for that unless you had a departure time days ahead and wanted to be sure it was 100% on that day. ex. Leaving for a trip 5am Thursday and it's Monday. Set it up to end @5am Thursday and it will figure out the start time I guess. Have to try it sometime.
Greg
 
Back
Top