Troubling Stats from 2017 SL 30KWh Battery - What Next?

I'm looking for advice on how to proceed with a problematic battery capacity situation.

I recently purchased a 2017 SL through a wholesaler / auction process for which I wasn't present. The car had <3K miles and 12 bars showing. A call to Nissan confirmed the 12 bar status and the warranty was still valid. When I received it, it had ~10% charge. Once I charged it (to about 85%), the first red flag was that the GOM range value was less than the percent charge. The second red flag was when I received the title and saw that the single previous leasee lived in Arizona (which was not the location of the auction). The third red flag came when I charged at a station and got ~50% charge increase with 10 KWh. I've driven it about 200 miles, and it is still showing 12 bars, but the GOM has been showing consistently less range than the percent charged, despite the economy being at ~3.3 mi/KWh. I recently purchased an OBD-II device and used LeafSpy to obtain a more detailed report on the battery. The initial reading shows:

AHr: 58.29
SOH: 73.34%
Hx: 72.13%
369.76 V

Obviously, these numbers are troublesome, since they suggest my capacity is at ~21.5 KWh. This is also in line with the GOM and charging station experiences. What I don't understand is how the battery capacity could be in such bad shape with 12 bars showing. From what I've read, the BMS can be reset, but wouldn't I see strange numbers through LeafSpy as well?

Either way, it appears I've been tricked into purchasing a Leaf with a heavily degraded battery capacity.

Does anyone have suggestions on how to proceed from this point?
What further data should I be collecting?
Even by the LeafSpy numbers, I'm not in the 8-bar territory yet. Do I have any other recourse, considering the faulty/tampered bar display and Nissan's confirmation?

I haven't been able to find a thread with a similar problem, but please point me to others that might be related/helpful.

Thanks in advance!

As I understand it, LeafSpy is only fooled by a reset for a little while - maybe a week or two. Nissan, however, has made sure that the bar gauge stays 'fooled' for as long as possible - all Winter, if your climate is cold, for example. This topic has lots of info on 30kwh battery degradation, but little on resets. It may interest you anyway.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606

Just to be clear, you are looking at the right set of bars, right? http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File:Scott_3_bars_s.jpg is an example of a 3 bar loser.

If so, that is odd that the # of capacity bars is so divergent from the SOH. With an SOH like that, that car should be down at least 2 bars, maybe 3 (off the top of my head).

A previous reset example we've seen here on MNL not only showed an inflated # of bars but also inflated AHr, SOH and Hx: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=489807#p489807.

I'm guessing that this is a reset that was done a while ago, but because it's Winter, the BMS hasn't updated the bars yet.

Hyacinth said:

Does anyone have suggestions on how to proceed from this point?

Click to expand...

Wait for the fourth bar to drop, at which point Nissan will replace the battery.

The capacity bars will catch up, but post a photo just to confirm the discrepancy.
When the time comes, get a new battery under warranty.
Rinse and repeat

How much did you pay for the car ?

Have you fully charged it to 100% yet?

You say you are getting 3.3 miles per KWh? If the battery has 30 KWh that would be 99 miles at 100%.

At under 3,000 miles I can't see how it is degraded 30% unless there is a bad module. What does leafspy page with the module voltages say at full and low charge?

Thanks for the suggestions!

I just wrote a detailed reply that got lost when I tried to post it. I'll try to summarize as quickly as I can:

Yep, I'm looking at the correct bars. I took a photo, but don't know how to post it here.

The end of "winter" as a trigger might not make sense in my case. I am in Northern California, we've already had a "heat" wave (high 70s), and we don't really have a seasonal climate anyway.

Once when fully charged, the GOM read 92. I see how that seems in line with the bars and economy. I've collected some %/Odo data and reverse calculated the capacity, but it's 25 +/- 5 KWh. Not exactly precise. Also doesn't match my charging station experience (10 KWh = 50%), which is also not precise.

Today's LeafSpy Lite numbers:

AHr: 58.71
V: 376.12
SOH: 73.7%
Hx: 72.5%

min/avg/max: 3.911 / 3.919 / 3.933 (22 mV)
Temp F: 65.5 / 66.4 / 64.4 (2 deg)

Consistent voltages, but are they low? The other numbers still seem to be...

Someone also suggested contacting Nissan for historical data. Has anyone ever tried that?

I'm also looking into California Lemon Laws. Has anyone had experience with applying those to electric vehicles?

Unfortunately you haven't had three unsuccessful attempts to repair a defect. Does the California Lemon Law offer other avenues? I agree that your high temps make a 'Winter hold' on the capacity bars very unlikely. You seem to have a unique case here. I'm hoping very much that we aren't seeing a new kind of tampering that just locks the capacity display at 12 bars...


...um, this is going to sound silly, but did you look closely to make sure that the highest capacity bars aren't painted onto the glass? Look at it with the car off.

"Yep, I'm looking at the correct bars. I took a photo, but don't know how to post it here."
If you send it to me via PM I'll post it for you.
Or put it on the internet somewhere and provide the link

Looks like a reset to me. I would just wait for it to all catch up, and when it drops 4 bars go to the dealer and get your free battery replacement. Since you are still under warranty, enjoy your new replacement!

If LeafSpy shows any super low voltage cells, similar to this, then you may have a case for Nissan to replace the bad cell(s):



Otherwise, you will likely eventually qualify for a free replacement battery but it's probably going to take a couple of years before you're down to 8 bars.

Heh. I guess it's good to rule out anything silly while we're at it. No, the bars aren't painted on.

I also don't seem to have any super low cells, as the previous data, and current data, suggest.

LeafSpy:
AHr: 58.12
V: 372.8
SOH: 73.13
Hx: 71.95
voltage avg: 3.884 (8 mV)
temp F: 59.5
SOC: 63.7

HUD:
Charge: 66%
GOM: 64
Bars: 12

Although I haven't yet had more than 3 repairs, it does seem to suggest that I should be able to take it in to get repaired, and they have to try to restore it. I will study it further.

I'm also worried this is some other sort of tampering that keeps the bars higher than the actual battery health readings. In that case, who knows how far it'll have to fall to hit 8 bars. I think I also need to try to measure charging more to find some additional confirmation of the actual capacity and range.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add more info as I learn more.

Although I haven't yet had more than 3 repairs, it does seem to suggest that I should be able to take it in to get repaired, and they have to try to restore it. I will study it further.

Click to expand...

Nissan's warranty is based strictly on capacity bars showing, or on large discrepancies in cell voltages. You can't use LeafSpy data in a Nissan warranty claim.

LeftieBiker said:

Although I haven't yet had more than 3 repairs, it does seem to suggest that I should be able to take it in to get repaired, and they have to try to restore it. I will study it further.

Click to expand...

Nissan's warranty is based strictly on capacity bars showing, or on large discrepancies in cell voltages. You can't use LeafSpy data in a Nissan warranty claim.

Click to expand...

Yep. It's a waste of time unless it's down to 4 bars. If you take it to the dealer w/9 or more capacity bars visible, they will tell you to come back when it's showing 8 or less.

But, if you can get the pack to fail the CVLI test due to a weak cell(s) or there's some other error condition (e.g. unexpected turtle or shutdown when there's plenty of % SoC left), they'll look at that. But in the case of CVLI test failing, they will simply (possibly with a fight) replace the bad module(s).

For background info on a bad module replacement,. see biggiejohn's posts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=457982#p457982.

I would drive the car to a stop around your driveway then recharge and see if anything peculiar happens during the attempt

I would definitely visit the dealer and verify that the battery warranty transferred to you. For example, if the car had a salvage title, then warranties are probably voided, and you would want to try to back-out of the purchase.

But provided that the battery warranty is good, then you should have no worries at all: it looks like it will drop four bars within a few thousand miles (probably this summer), and then you get a brand new battery, which is basically "turning over a new Leaf ". Some Leaf shoppers actively search for a used Leaf which is guaranteed to get a free battery replacement, so having this happen to you may not be a bad thing, unless you needed that full 30kw range this summer.

Winter hold is activated when battery is below 15*C.
It appears this vehicle had the bars resetted.