Do I have a bum heater?

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leafdriving

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
12
Hi, I bought my 2013 SL used in January and probably used the heater a handful of times until this week. The nights have been in the mid 30s so I started using the heater and I found the air coming out of the vents "lukewarm" at best. I figured maybe it's too cold for the heat pump to be as effective as it can be on my short (6 mile) nightly commute so I decided to try it now.

It's 51 degrees out, I turned on the car, set the climate to 90 with HEAT ON, pulled up the energy info page and I noticed that after 15 seconds the Climate Control was using about 1300 watts and dropped to 750 watts after 1 minute.
I then hit the AC button, with the heat still on and set to 90 degrees, and the Climate Control kW usage dropped to 0 watts.
I next hit the windshield defroster (AUTO HEAT ON & A/C ON) and it was using only about 200-400 watts.

After searching I've found posts about the PTC failing but didn't really find ways to actually test the heating system. Can anyone tell me how high the Climate Control kW can read on '13 SL? How else can I test the PTC? And if faulty, how long is the warranty on the PTC?

Thanks a lot!

P.S. I also noticed that it took longer to defrost the windshield over the summer than when I first got the car.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. Just used the heater again tonight. Energy info screen showed only 300W the whole time.

Is the heater only covered for 3yrs/36k miles? If so, that sucks ass.

Anyone know/seen any info about troubleshooting it yourself. I don't mind taking apart the dash and replacing it. Just want to make sure it's definitely the insanely priced PTC and not some cheaper sensor.
 
Sorry... but I couldn't resist this. If you have heated seats...you have a bum heater. :lol: Butt on a serious note, I wish you the best of luck on solving your situation,
 
The power consumption you are seeing clearly looks like the PTC heater is not working. One additional test you might want to try is set the climate control timer/remote temperature setting (in the menus on the NAV system) to 90 degrees. Then initiate cabin heating while plugged in to L2 EVSE by either setting climate control timer or initiating remote climate control start. If the steering wheel and seat heaters turn on and the car does not get nice and warm, then the PTC heater is definitely not working. I have noticed my 2015 SL will use the PTC for preheating while plugged in even with moderate temperatures that the heat pump would handle. I suspect Nissan programmed the controls that way to eliminate exterior mechanical noise while preheating.

Once you confirm complete loss of PTC heating, diagnosis and repair need to consider control system, hjgh-voltage power supply, and the PTC. A control system issue could be causing failure to energize the PTC. The PTC branch circuit fuses in the high-voltage distribution system could be blown due to short circuit in wiring or if the PTC failed and caused high current. Obviously, replacing the PTC heater will not solve problems in the power supply or control systems.
 
GerryAZ said:
<span>The power consumption you are seeing clearly looks like the PTC heater is not working. One additional test you might want to try is set the climate control timer/remote temperature setting (in the menus on the NAV system) to 90 degrees. Then initiate cabin heating while plugged in to L2 <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/electric-vehicle-charger/" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">EVSE<span class="tip">Compare EVSE equipment</span></a> by either setting climate control timer or initiating remote climate control start. If the steering wheel and seat heaters turn on and the car does not get nice and warm, then the PTC heater is definitely not working. I have noticed my 2015 SL will use the PTC for preheating while plugged in even with moderate temperatures that the heat pump would handle. I suspect Nissan programmed the controls that way to eliminate exterior mechanical noise while preheating.</span>

Once you confirm complete loss of PTC heating, diagnosis and repair need to consider control system, hjgh-voltage power supply, and the PTC. A control system issue could be causing failure to energize the PTC. The PTC branch circuit fuses in the high-voltage distribution system could be blown due to short circuit in wiring or if the PTC failed and caused high current. Obviously, replacing the PTC heater will not solve problems in the power supply or control systems.
Thanks for your help. Tried it with the climate timer and same crap.
Evoforce said:
Sorry... but I couldn't resist this. If you have heated seats...you have a bum heater. :lol: Butt on a serious note, I wish you the best of luck on solving your situation,
Yes. It appears I have two bum heaters now.
 
I'm replying to bump this thread.

I have a 2013 SV with a PTC heater that appears to not be working. Can I assume that replacing the PTC heater is a BIG SCARY JOB that shouldn't be attempted by a DYI'er ? :roll:
 
pmc said:
I'm replying to bump this thread.

I have a 2013 SV with a PTC heater that appears to not be working. Can I assume that replacing the PTC heater is a BIG SCARY JOB that shouldn't be attempted by a DYI'er ? :roll:

It depends on your skill level. If you'd pull and replace an engine without blinking, you can do the PTC R&R.
 
10/23/2018 I can't figure out how to attach a photo of my trouble codes to this forum. Anyway the Nissan dealership claims my PTC heater shorted out and blew the fusible link in the DC-to-DC converter and estimated the repair beyond $4,000 which includes about $2,000 in new parts, and $2,000 in labor. If I could pull the converter myself that would get me reduce labor fees. When I look under the hood I see brackets welded to framework, (not bolted) which would make disassembly incredibly difficult. Has anyone published a video on removing the DC>>DC converter in a 2012 LEAF SL?

Remaining fault codes (after clearing) from my LEAFspy are:
>P312A 00C1 EV/HEV Comm Error EVC-208
>P3131 00C1 EV/HEV System Shutoff Timeout EVC-220
>P31C2 00C1 EV/HEV TCU EVC-273
>B2770 0009 HVAC PTC Heater Circuit HAC-75
>U1000 000B TCU CAN Comm Circuit

Any ideas or videos are appreciated, especially regarding the difficulty of removing the converter.



My 2012 LEAF SL heater quit working. Symptoms: No power draw indicated on the energy screen while driving, no heat reaches the cabin, however when plugged in to shore power and timer heater engaged, my house electrical monitoring system DOES show the normal 3-4 kW heat power draw, but I can't detect heat reaching the cabin even though air continues to flow. Note my A/C still works normally. Nissan dealership is telling me I need both a new heater, AND a new DC-DC converter. I don't believe the mechanic. My questions to the forum experts...
1) if my DC-DC converter failed, what else wouldn't be working (besides the heater)?
2) if my heater truly failed, it also wouldn't work if connected to shore power, correct?
3) does anybody have ideas on what has actually failed in this scenario?

Thanks!
 
There have been several forms of heater failure. I think the ptc element is the less comimon failure mode. I think the temperature sensor is the more common failure. It fails to something like 1500 degrees so the heater will never turn to heat it up any further. I don't remember how it gets solved or the location of the parts but a search may turn up some results.
 
I doubt that your DC-DC converter is bad because your 12-volt battery would go dead quickly with any accessories (like heater fan and coolant pumps) running if it fails. Sometimes the fuses inside the DC Junction Box blow when the heater fails so that could be what the dealer meant. The 3 kW power draw is the onboard charger charging the traction battery even though the heater itself is not drawing power (maximum draw should be about 3.6 kW at 240 volts). If you can get LEAF Spy Pro (and suitable OBDII adapter), read the DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes) and post them here. The trouble codes will help us give you more information.
 
10/23/2018 I can't figure out how to attach a photo of my trouble codes to this forum. Anyway the Nissan dealership claims my PTC heater element shorted out and blew the fusible link in the DC-to-DC converter and estimated the repair beyond $4,000 (includes both heater & converter replacement) which includes about $2,000 in new parts, and $2,000 in labor. If I could pull the converter myself that would get me past the labor fees. When I look under the hood I see brackets welded to framework, (not bolted) which would make removal/disassembly incredibly difficult. Has anyone published a video on removing the DC>>DC converter in a 2012 LEAF SL?

Remaining fault codes (after clearing) from my LEAFspy are:
>P312A 00C1 EV/HEV Comm Error EVC-208
>P3131 00C1 EV/HEV System Shutoff Timeout EVC-220
>P31C2 00C1 EV/HEV TCU EVC-273
>B2770 0009 HVAC PTC Heater Circuit HAC-75
>U1000 000B TCU CAN Comm Circuit

Any ideas or videos are appreciated, especially regarding the difficulty of removing the converter.
 
gschetti,

I can't speak to the heater code, but these have been highlighted by others as a TCU caused condition:
>P312A 00C1 EV/HEV Comm Error EVC-208
>P3131 00C1 EV/HEV System Shutoff Timeout EVC-220
>P31C2 00C1 EV/HEV TCU EVC-273
>U1000 000B TCU CAN Comm Circuit
See: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=26204

I don't get why a heater or DC-DC converter failure would cause TCU codes. I suspect you have a different (or additional) problem. Also, if you're driving your car and the 12V battery isn't going dead, I suspect the diagnosis of a failed DC-DC converter may be wrong. The DC-DC converter has the same function as the alternator in an ICE--it charges the 12V battery off the main lithium battery pack.

Thoughts:
1) Is your 12V battery fully charged? I would charge it with an external charger with the car OFF especially if you suspect the DC-DC converter might be bad.
2) Once you've ensured the 12V battery is full, turn on the car and try to clear codes again via LeafSpy.
3) If you have a 3G TCU, have you applied the TSB for the TCU? If not, you should either disconnect it or have that done.
4) Try pulling the fuse for the TCU, waiting a few seconds, and reconnecting it as described here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=26204
5) Do you have the 2G or 3G TCU? (If you don't know, does Carwings work for you? If so, it's 3G) The 2012 originally shipped with a 2G TCU, so unless it was upgraded, it'd be 2G.
6) Are all the cables plugged in correctly to the TCU? If you have the 2G TCU or you don't want your car on the internet, you should have the white plug CONNECTED, blue plug CONNECTED, and the grey plug DISCONNECTED. If you have the 3G TCU, you should have all 3 cables (white, grey, and blue) connected.

Your TCU (basically the cell modem for Carwings and remote access) is reporting errors, which is odd. I know when I disconnected the TCU from my car, I got a number of CAN bus errors (IFIRC, some unrelated to the TCU) when I disconnected the white plug. It's probably a long-shot, but I would definitely check to ensure that the white cable is CONNECTED to the TCU.

Checking the TCU is about 15min of effort and requires very little skill. Getting those codes cleared may clear up some of the others, so I'd try to sort that out first. If you're not using Carwings, I'd recommend disconnecting it so it's never an issue in the future.

Instructions and video are here:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=25949

This is a good picture of what the DC/DC converter looks like:
https://youtu.be/BMhcHkOg-Mk?t=136

From this slideshow below, it sounds like the DC/DC converter is bolted underneath the inverter. So I think you should be able to remove it by unbolting the inverter and then unbolting it from the traction motor below.
http://slideplayer.com/slide/4769878/
 
baustin said:
I tested mine a couple weeks ago to make sure the heater was working. The energy reading spikes to around 3kw while the air heater is running.
Can you please let me know how you check that? As I am facing issues in checking the heater.
 
Please edit your profile to include your location and edit your signature to indicate the year and trim of your LEAF. AFAIK, you can only check the energy draw on SV and SL trims, via the blue button on the infotainment console.
 
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