I Replaced All the Cells in my Leaf's Battery- Now I Have Some Problems

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Keefeollers

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
11
A few weeks back I purchased a 2011 Nissan leaf from Arizona. As you might imagine the capacity in the battery wasn't great, but I got the car for cheap so I didn't care. I was getting about 20-30 actual miles on a full charge. However, 20 miles is barely enough for me to drive into town not to mention getting back! So I started looking at my options.

I could have had the battery replaced by Nissan for over $6,000 but that would have been more than I spent on the car itself. I wondered if batteries from newer cars could be put into the car. I soon found out that would require reprogramming the battery control module so that killed that idea. But then I wondered if the cells themselves could be swapped between batteries. They were the same size, so why not?

That's exactly what I did. I purchased a 2014 pack for around $3,000, dropped the pack from my 2011, and swapped the cells. Overall the job was fairly quick and easy. With it being my first time doing this it only took me about a day. After all was said and done I popped the pack back in and it was charging!

I thought to myself, "Man, that was easy. I was expecting something to go wrong."

I was feeling pretty good. The car was trickle charging with over 10 hours till full. Much better than the 3-4 hours it would take to fill the old cells. I was about to pour myself a nice cup of victory when I decided to check out how the car was doing with Nissan Connect.

The car had been charging for about 4 hours and had around 5 bars worth of charge. I refreshed the page and...nothing. No information was being shown except for the estimated charge time of 6 hours. At the time I was away from the car running some errands so I figured that the app was just having trouble connecting to the car.

I was wrong

When I got back home the car was not charging anymore. I could turn it on but instead of the dash showing (X) number of miles remaining it showed --- and the EV System warning light was on along with both red and yellow Master warning lights. I fiddled around with the gear shifter and when I tried to put it in drive suddenly the miles remaining on the dash returned and the EV System warning light turned off, only to return a moment later. Now the car refuses to shift into anything other than park or neutral.

I used LeafSpy Pro to look and see what error codes it was throwing out. Oh Boy! We have 22 messages! After clearing them 21 codes came back. I tried to drive but I only could put it into neutral. Then the 22nd code returned as p31e7 EV/HEV Restart Inibition EVC-310. Google returns nothing on that.

So that's where I am now. An idiot with a possibly bricked car, 48 old cells laying in the garage, and no idea where to begin to solve this issue. Any help would be appreciated.
 
I know it is a lot o typing, but the complete list of error codes might help us to shed some light on your issue. Did you check overall pack and individual cell-pair voltages with Leaf Spy before charging to make sure all wiring was properly reconnected? The pack is isolated from ground and the LBC (lithium battery controller) monitors that insulation. It will shutdown the high-voltage system if it detects an insulation problem.
 
GerryAZ said:
I know it is a lot o typing, but the complete list of error codes might help us to shed some light on your issue. Did you check overall pack and individual cell-pair voltages with Leaf Spy before charging to make sure all wiring was properly reconnected? The pack is isolated from ground and the LBC (lithium battery controller) monitors that insulation. It will shutdown the high-voltage system if it detects an insulation problem.

A1mKO


There are the error codes.

I did not check the voltages before trying to charge but I did check the overall pack voltage before I installed it into the car. If I remember correctly it was about 380ish volts.

I was planning to drop the pack again and take a look inside to see if anything changed from when it was last open
 
Crap the Image link didn't work. Oh well, I'll just write them out

Read DTCs 20

Ok None---> ABS
Ok None---> AIR BAG
Ok None---> BCM
Ok None---> BRAKE
Ok None---> CHARGER
Ok None--->PARKING BRAKE
Ok None---> EPS
P3196 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error EVC-274
P31E7 00C0 EV/HEV Restart Inibition EVC-310
P0AA6 00C0 EV/HEV Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157
P3196 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error EVC-274
Ok None---> HVAC
P3196 000E HV BATTERY CAN Error EVB-99
Ok None---> IPDM E/R
Ok None---> METER
Ok None---> MOTOR CONTROL
U1263 0208 MULTI AV USB Overcurrent AV-91
U1266 0208 MULTI AV TCU Conn AV-92
Ok None---> SHIFT
Ok None---> TCU
 
I seem to recall that when a new pack is installed that the dealer has to do something to get it working. Maybe just pulling it out requires the same process??
 
jbuntz said:
I seem to recall that when a new pack is installed that the dealer has to do something to get it working. Maybe just pulling it out requires the same process??

Technically, I don't think the car thinks a new pack is installed, seeing as how I used the same bus bars and control unit from the same car
 
My rough guess is it's a bus connection issue. Either poor or incorrect connections, or the loss and then restoration of the connections triggered the errors.
 
I would also recommend the service manual. The P31E7 just indicates that P0AA6 has
been detected. A cause of the P0AA6 can be the battery heaters, but they were not
in all 2011 LEAF's. With all the CAN errors, my first thought would be for the non-high
voltage connector to the battery, though P0AA6 could be from many different causes
inside the battery. Also odd to see the 3rd CAN-bus errors from the AV, is the 12 volt
battery charged?
 
LeftieBiker said:
My rough guess is it's a bus connection issue. Either poor or incorrect connections, or the loss and then restoration of the connections triggered the errors.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

Look what I found

https://imgur.com/a/06qX3

https://imgur.com/a/06qX3

That would be a broken connector. So I torn that broken bit off and reconnected it.


AAANNNNNDDDDD..........
 
cliff said:
I would also recommend the service manual. The P31E7 just indicates that P0AA6 has
been detected. A cause of the P0AA6 can be the battery heaters, but they were not
in all 2011 LEAF's. With all the CAN errors, my first thought would be for the non-high
voltage connector to the battery, though P0AA6 could be from many different causes
inside the battery. Also odd to see the 3rd CAN-bus errors from the AV, is the 12 volt
battery charged?

I found the 2012 service manual and I have looked at some of the error codes I have. Troubleshooting now.
 
Not sure where the BMS components are located... Are you using BMS from the new pack or the old pack? Perhaps the BMS modules are "registered" to the ECU in some way over CAN. So if the new battery modules you used, contain their own (new) BMS then that could be an issue. Just speculating.
 
Cool project, hope you get this figured out as it gives the rest of us hope for future battery reconditioning.

This might be useful to you:

http://www.nicoclub.com/manuals/Leaf/2011%20Leaf/br.pdf (Brake system)
http://www.nicoclub.com/manuals/Leaf/2011%20Leaf/brc.pdf (Brake control system)
http://www.nicoclub.com/manuals/Leaf/2011%20Leaf/evc.pdf (EV control system)
http://www.nicoclub.com/manuals/Leaf/2011%20Leaf (all the other manuals, if you need them)

All the DTC codes you posted are covered in those manuals, if you know how to diagnose the issues properly (I don't, I'm just good at digging info online).

Good luck!
 
Keefeollers said:
cliff said:
I would also recommend the service manual. The P31E7 just indicates that P0AA6 has
been detected. A cause of the P0AA6 can be the battery heaters, but they were not
in all 2011 LEAF's. With all the CAN errors, my first thought would be for the non-high
voltage connector to the battery, though P0AA6 could be from many different causes
inside the battery. Also odd to see the 3rd CAN-bus errors from the AV, is the 12 volt
battery charged?

I found the 2012 service manual and I have looked at some of the error codes I have. Troubleshooting now.


Have u found solution now ?
 
Just guessing here but when Nissan replaces pack, they "have to" reset the BMS. Not sure if this is required for cell swaps (I am guessing it is) or whether you can do this at home.
 
thurakyawswar said:
Keefeollers said:
cliff said:
I would also recommend the service manual. The P31E7 just indicates that P0AA6 has
been detected. A cause of the P0AA6 can be the battery heaters, but they were not
in all 2011 LEAF's. With all the CAN errors, my first thought would be for the non-high
voltage connector to the battery, though P0AA6 could be from many different causes
inside the battery. Also odd to see the 3rd CAN-bus errors from the AV, is the 12 volt
battery charged?

I found the 2012 service manual and I have looked at some of the error codes I have. Troubleshooting now.


Have u found solution now ?

Well, I forgot this thread existed for a while. Oops

Sort of? The issue was that when we lifted the vertical bank of cells back into the case I accidentally put it down on an alignment peg. (batteries are heavy and I am weak) This punctured one of the cells and that was causing all the error codes. Bought a new cell, for WWAAYY too much money, and success, the car drives!

But all is not well in Leaf town. No siree.

We expected the car to recognize the new cells had different voltages and adjust itself accordingly. NOPE. We still had exactly the same range as we did before. Understandably, we were pissed. $5k on the car, $500 on towing it back from Arizona, $3k on the replacement cells, All that work and no change in range? Priceless.

Now, my guess is that the BMS had to be reset to accept the new cells, but there was no way we could really do that. So we had to just eat our losses and drive it how it was. Which sucked because it couldn't even make it halfway across town. AND I did a goof and screwed up the steering components by turning the wheel while a front tire was still tied down to a trailer; I bent a whole bunch of stuff. This cost us another $1k or so to fix.

So, let's tally up how much we spent on this. By my count we are in this for more than $9,500 and all we have is a car with 26 miles of range. woohoo. We could have bought a used Leaf that had more range and was a newer model for that price. (Which we did)

If you've read this far, this would be the point in the story where all is lost for our heroes and there seems to be no way out. But things get better.

You see, as we continued to drive the car, our range was steadily increasing. One month it was 26 miles, the next 30 miles, and so on. Eventually, around June of this year, we had over 60 miles worth of range! Ha! Now this is a car we can use. Take that, oil companies. We will bring you down, one trip to the grocery store at a time.

Of course, we don't know if it will stay this way. All throughout winter we were sitting at 25-35 miles of range. It could be that the warmer temperatures are giving us more range and when winter comes again we will lose it. Who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.

We also have added a janky battery heating system which we haven't even used yet. Go figure

Overall, I'd say the project worked. We set out to give the car more range than when we bought it and we succeeded. However, if anyone else wants to take on a project like this, be smarter than I was. Don't break your steering rack, or your suspension, or your batteries, or spend way too much trying to get it to work because you are just that stubborn.

Heck, I read an article that said Nissan was offering refurbished batteries for Leafs now. Maybe just do that instead. (I just looked it up and apparently this is only in Japan? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

If anyone has any more questions I'll do my best to not forget about this thread again.

Cheers,
Keefe
 
Keefeollers said:
thurakyawswar said:
Keefeollers said:
I found the 2012 service manual and I have looked at some of the error codes I have. Troubleshooting now.


Have u found solution now ?

Well, I forgot this thread existed for a while. Oops

Sort of? The issue was that when we lifted the vertical bank of cells back into the case I accidentally put it down on an alignment peg. (batteries are heavy and I am weak) This punctured one of the cells and that was causing all the error codes. Bought a new cell, for WWAAYY too much money, and success, the car drives!

But all is not well in Leaf town. No siree.

We expected the car to recognize the new cells had different voltages and adjust itself accordingly. NOPE. We still had exactly the same range as we did before. Understandably, we were pissed. $5k on the car, $500 on towing it back from Arizona, $3k on the replacement cells, All that work and no change in range? Priceless.

Now, my guess is that the BMS had to be reset to accept the new cells, but there was no way we could really do that. So we had to just eat our losses and drive it how it was. Which sucked because it couldn't even make it halfway across town. AND I did a goof and screwed up the steering components by turning the wheel while a front tire was still tied down to a trailer; I bent a whole bunch of stuff. This cost us another $1k or so to fix.

So, let's tally up how much we spent on this. By my count we are in this for more than $9,500 and all we have is a car with 26 miles of range. woohoo. We could have bought a used Leaf that had more range and was a newer model for that price. (Which we did)

If you've read this far, this would be the point in the story where all is lost for our heroes and there seems to be no way out. But things get better.

You see, as we continued to drive the car, our range was steadily increasing. One month it was 26 miles, the next 30 miles, and so on. Eventually, around June of this year, we had over 60 miles worth of range! Ha! Now this is a car we can use. Take that, oil companies. We will bring you down, one trip to the grocery store at a time.

Of course, we don't know if it will stay this way. All throughout winter we were sitting at 25-35 miles of range. It could be that the warmer temperatures are giving us more range and when winter comes again we will lose it. Who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.

We also have added a janky battery heating system which we haven't even used yet. Go figure

Overall, I'd say the project worked. We set out to give the car more range than when we bought it and we succeeded. However, if anyone else wants to take on a project like this, be smarter than I was. Don't break your steering rack, or your suspension, or your batteries, or spend way too much trying to get it to work because you are just that stubborn.

Heck, I read an article that said Nissan was offering refurbished batteries for Leafs now. Maybe just do that instead. (I just looked it up and apparently this is only in Japan? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

If anyone has any more questions I'll do my best to not forget about this thread again.

Cheers,
Keefe


For your spring/fall/winter range, consider getting one of these:
http://betterev.tabetalt.no/Produkt/nissan-leaf-heater-controller-kit-v2#

See this for more information:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11412&start=140

The issue is that the 2011/2012 Leafs often turn the heater on when it doesn't need to be on, eating your additional range. This happens when the temperature isn't TOO hot or TOO cold. The kit I linked is a switch you can install yourself to disable the heater when you don't need it.

Note: It's listed as 200.00 NOK, but that's actually only around $24. Compared to the battery work you did, that should be an easy job!
 
But all is not well in Leaf town. No siree.

We expected the car to recognize the new cells had different voltages and adjust itself accordingly. NOPE. We still had exactly the same range as we did before. Understandably, we were pissed. $5k on the car, $500 on towing it back from Arizona, $3k on the replacement cells, All that work and no change in range? Priceless.

Was that just the GOM (Guess of miles) or the actual distance the car was able to travel? My car reports 50 miles on the GOM when I start it, but I'd be lucky to actually get 25... In other words, was the new capacity immediately available to you but the GOM was wrong, or you really weren't even able to get the car across town?

And yes, you're right that the refurb program is Japan only, for now.
 
Lothsahn said:
But all is not well in Leaf town. No siree.

We expected the car to recognize the new cells had different voltages and adjust itself accordingly. NOPE. We still had exactly the same range as we did before. Understandably, we were pissed. $5k on the car, $500 on towing it back from Arizona, $3k on the replacement cells, All that work and no change in range? Priceless.

Was that just the GOM (Guess of miles) or the actual distance the car was able to travel? My car reports 50 miles on the GOM when I start it, but I'd be lucky to actually get 25... In other words, was the new capacity immediately available to you but the GOM was wrong, or you really weren't even able to get the car across town?

And yes, you're right that the refurb program is Japan only, for now.

Good question, the answer? We didn't really test it too much. It was like 6 months ago but I remember my dad saying that he was able to drive the car around our neighborhood for a good bit after the GOM hit zero and the car died. I don't remember the exact number but I think he said he could drive it 12-20 miles beyond the point where the car hit zero. I went through my text history and this happened in mid November of 2017. The car rated the range at around 25 to 30 miles max at this time.

So I guess in a way the change was immediate but there were too many variables to really tell. That replacement cell for the one I punctured? It was super out of whack with all the other cells. Using leaf spy, it hit as much as 120mv of difference between the others. This could have limited the charging of the other cells, preventing us from getting more range. Perhaps it just took 9 months for the battery to balance.

As far as getting the car across town, I could get the car to the other side of town but by that point the car had single digit miles left on the GOM. The only time we really took the car close to across town (before the range increase) was to get the steering fixed. It's about 14.5 miles to the repair shop and we started with about 30-ish miles I think? We got there with 13 miles left. When we got the car back it had 9 miles left and we towed it back, not wanting it to get stuck anywhere.

Another interesting thing is that after we replaced the cells, regen braking was very limited. We only really got 5-7 kw of regen max. But now we get much more regen 20-25 kw. Why? you got me.

It has been a while since I've looked at leaf spy but I can check it out and see if the battery has balanced. I don't have the car right now but I'll check on it when I do. Are there any other stats you want me to look at while I'm at it?
 
When we got the car back it had 9 miles left and we towed it back, not wanting it to get stuck anywhere.

I understand your caution in this circumstance, but in case you don't know, there is usually roughly 5-10 miles of range left when the GOM stops showing numbers and just displays dashes. From your Dad's test I'd say you can safely use all the GOM's displayed range.
 
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