willbur4
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:36 am
Delivery Date: 22 Jul 2016
Location: Bowling Green Ohio

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:24 pm

IssacZachary wrote:
willbur4 wrote:It appears these batteries do well in this climate if owners manual precautions (they are a pain) are heeded.

What owner's manual precautions are you referring to, if I may ask?


From leaf owners manual:

Allow battery to cool before charging (Use of charging timer is helpful here. If I need to charge a warm battery I do it but this is unusual for us)

Park in shade (If shady spot is available. If you have to park in the sun daily while at work, this could be a problem for the battery. If SOC is mid-range or lower, then heat is less of a concern)

Avoid sustained high battery temps


Minimize use of QC

Avoid sustained high SOC (If you need to charge to 100%, do it. But drive off when charge is complete)

Allow battery to be < 80% before charging (I have topped off many times if range is needed, the key is to drive off when charge is complete)

willbur4
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:36 am
Delivery Date: 22 Jul 2016
Location: Bowling Green Ohio

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:31 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
willbur4 wrote:I decided to Check my 30Kw 2016 Leaf battery after seeing reports of accelerated degradation. I Was pleased to find 99.97% SOH (LeafSpy) after two years and 24,442 miles of use in northern Ohio. We L2 Charge daily to ~ 90% then drive off within 1/2 hour. It appears these batteries do well in this climate if owners manual precautions (they are a pain) are heeded. Battery data from 4/19/2018:

SOH = 99.97 %
Temp = 62.8 F
347 volts
AHR = 79.46
1 QC 791L1/L2 Charges
24,442 miles
HX = 92.51%
SOC = 28.7%
84 GID
4mi/KwH


Your avoiding 100% SOC has paid off!

Your SOH is good but Hx, not so much. Wouldn't lose sleep over that. The pitfall of no top end balancing. To determine how important top end balancing you need to weigh longevity over range. If you don't need a few extra miles of range, just keep doing what you are doing.

Ahr is 96.5%. Its all conjecture here but I consider this the most important metric. I would also take more readings of your pack as this single snapshot could be a bit misleading. The numbers bounce around (if you don't have a 2018) all the time so more samples just rounds out the view a bit.


Thanks for the tips. Any idea why SOH and Ahr would diverge by 3 percent?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13076
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:06 pm

willbur4 wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
willbur4 wrote:I decided to Check my 30Kw 2016 Leaf battery after seeing reports of accelerated degradation. I Was pleased to find 99.97% SOH (LeafSpy) after two years and 24,442 miles of use in northern Ohio. We L2 Charge daily to ~ 90% then drive off within 1/2 hour. It appears these batteries do well in this climate if owners manual precautions (they are a pain) are heeded. Battery data from 4/19/2018:

SOH = 99.97 %
Temp = 62.8 F
347 volts
AHR = 79.46
1 QC 791L1/L2 Charges
24,442 miles
HX = 92.51%
SOC = 28.7%
84 GID
4mi/KwH


Your avoiding 100% SOC has paid off!

Your SOH is good but Hx, not so much. Wouldn't lose sleep over that. The pitfall of no top end balancing. To determine how important top end balancing you need to weigh longevity over range. If you don't need a few extra miles of range, just keep doing what you are doing.

Ahr is 96.5%. Its all conjecture here but I consider this the most important metric. I would also take more readings of your pack as this single snapshot could be a bit misleading. The numbers bounce around (if you don't have a 2018) all the time so more samples just rounds out the view a bit.


Thanks for the tips. Any idea why SOH and Ahr would diverge by 3 percent?


Who knows? Part of it is simply a one off reading. You need a BUNDLE of readings. Simply could be a temp diversion but how can you tell?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:28 pm

willbur4 wrote:From leaf owners manual:

Allow battery to cool before charging (Use of charging timer is helpful here. If I need to charge a warm battery I do it but this is unusual for us)

Park in shade (If shady spot is available. If you have to park in the sun daily while at work, this could be a problem for the battery. If SOC is mid-range or lower, then heat is less of a concern)

Avoid sustained high battery temps


Minimize use of QC

Avoid sustained high SOC (If you need to charge to 100%, do it. But drive off when charge is complete)

Allow battery to be < 80% before charging (I have topped off many times if range is needed, the key is to drive off when charge is complete)

Thanks! I guess that means I would be in an area that would work well with a 30kWh Leaf since the climate is mostly cool or cold (it's snowing now!)

I also set my charging timer for the morning. I do it because I think it might help warm the battery up in the cool of the morning. I'm not so sure it helps.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

willbur4
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:36 am
Delivery Date: 22 Jul 2016
Location: Bowling Green Ohio

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:10 am

IssacZachary wrote:
willbur4 wrote:From leaf owners manual:

Allow battery to cool before charging (Use of charging timer is helpful here. If I need to charge a warm battery I do it but this is unusual for us)

Park in shade (If shady spot is available. If you have to park in the sun daily while at work, this could be a problem for the battery. If SOC is mid-range or lower, then heat is less of a concern)

Avoid sustained high battery temps


Minimize use of QC

Avoid sustained high SOC (If you need to charge to 100%, do it. But drive off when charge is complete)

Allow battery to be < 80% before charging (I have topped off many times if range is needed, the key is to drive off when charge is complete)

Thanks! I guess that means I would be in an area that would work well with a 30kWh Leaf since the climate is mostly cool or cold (it's snowing now!)

I also set my charging timer for the morning. I do it because I think it might help warm the battery up in the cool of the morning. I'm not so sure it helps.



Look for a Leaf SV or SL (heat pump models) from a moderate or cool region, leaf spy the battery before purchase, and you will be good.

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:27 am

willbur4 wrote:Look for a Leaf SV or SL (heat pump models) from a moderate or cool region, leaf spy the battery before purchase, and you will be good.

Either that or I was thinking of bidding on a wrecked Leaf and swapping the battery out with my 2013. This has been done before but requires changin out a module under the dash.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13076
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:55 am

IssacZachary wrote:
willbur4 wrote:From leaf owners manual:

Allow battery to cool before charging (Use of charging timer is helpful here. If I need to charge a warm battery I do it but this is unusual for us)

Park in shade (If shady spot is available. If you have to park in the sun daily while at work, this could be a problem for the battery. If SOC is mid-range or lower, then heat is less of a concern)

Avoid sustained high battery temps


Minimize use of QC

Avoid sustained high SOC (If you need to charge to 100%, do it. But drive off when charge is complete)

Allow battery to be < 80% before charging (I have topped off many times if range is needed, the key is to drive off when charge is complete)

Thanks! I guess that means I would be in an area that would work well with a 30kWh Leaf since the climate is mostly cool or cold (it's snowing now!)

I also set my charging timer for the morning. I do it because I think it might help warm the battery up in the cool of the morning. I'm not so sure it helps.


As long as you realize the #1 concern is high SOC. Sure it matters if pack is cold or hot but high SOC is THE primary killer. If you don't need the range, don't charge to 100%.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:20 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:As long as you realize the #1 concern is high SOC.

In your opinion. Which Nissan obviously does not share.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13076
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:25 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:As long as you realize the #1 concern is high SOC.

In your opinion. Which Nissan obviously does not share.


Heaven forbid I should go against someone which such an awesome track record! :shock:
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:28 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:As long as you realize the #1 concern is high SOC.

In your opinion. Which Nissan obviously does not share.


Heaven forbid I should go against someone which such an awesome track record!

Feel free, just make it clear what is your personal opinion rather than fact or widely accepted.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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