New 2016 SV slow to trickle charge

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Psyclonus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
53
Location
Omaha, NE
We just ended our lease on our 2012 SL and brought home a 2016 SV. We're currently in an apartment, and hoping to buy a house in the next 6 months, so we're just using Level 1 charging at the moment. The problem is that the charge times for the new LEAF seem to be insanely long at Level 1. We've only had it about 48 hours, but after a bunch of driving yesterday, we came home around 7:30 p.m with 3 bars (20%) of capacity left, and the car was estimating a 35 hour trickle charge time to refill it! 12 hours later, we're up to 68%, and the ConnectEV app is estimating another 20 hours to go! Is this just some wildly bad math on the part of the app and the car, a result of the BMS not knowing what do do with the new battery, or some change that has actually made the car even slower to charge, obviously the 25% larger battery should take 25% longer, but this seems far beyond that...
 
I suspect the BMS is estimating a long time for topping off/balancing. The first charge on my 2015 had over 1-1/2 hours topping off at a very low rate. Eventually, the amount of time topping off/balancing became shorter. Enjoy your new car with increased range!

Gerry
 
Charge times were always overestimated. L1 is good for 40 to 60 miles max per day average.
I doubt anything is wrong. Need to drive less or find some L2

RAV4 is the same with 40+ hour recharge time with L1.
 
Thanks, my wife is just a bit annoyed, as she was hoping to use this for her commute, which is 52 miles right now (we're going to be moving MUCH closer to her job and mine when we find a house, and we already have a L2 EVSE from our last house). Most of it is freeway/interstate driving as well, so the 2012 SL was a bit short on range for the cold winter days, so I'd been driving it. She was hoping to get the LEAF back with this new one, but she may have to wait until Spring with the long L1 recharge time, though that means I can take it for my 24 mile stop-and-go commute instead. :)

Our impressions, after having the 2012 for 3 years are that the 2016 is a bit more refined. The new heater doesn't seem to murder our range nearly as much. She misses the automatic LED headlights that you can't get on the SV now, but she didn't want the black leather interior or the bronze exterior of the only SL in the area. I'm not a fan of the new audio/nav system, nor was I a fan of the old one. Aroundview is kind of nice though...
 
Assuming we have access to roughly 90% of the 30 kWh battery, which would make 100% charge = 27 kWh:
20% charge = 5.4 kWh
68% charge = 18.36 kWh
Which would mean that the battery charged at about 1.08 kW per hour you were plugged in. If I recall, Level 1 charging is 1.44 kW, but you have to figure in only 85% efficiency of the onboard charger, so you are down to only 1.224 kW. How cold was it while you are charging? Perhaps that little bit of difference could have been the battery heater kicking in? Either way, this is why Nissan doesn't recommend Level 1 charging for everyday use, its just too slow for many people. Best case you are only adding about 4 to 5 miles for every hour you charge, no matter if this is a 2011/2015 Leaf with a 24 kWh battery, or a 2016 Leaf with a 30 kWh battery.
 
keydiver said:
Assuming we have access to roughly 90% of the 30 kWh battery, which would make 100% charge = 27 kWh:
20% charge = 5.4 kWh
68% charge = 18.36 kWh
Which would mean that the battery charged at about 1.08 kW per hour you were plugged in. If I recall, Level 1 charging is 1.44 kW, but you have to figure in only 85% efficiency of the onboard charger, so you are down to only 1.224 kW
. How cold was it while you are charging? Perhaps that little bit of difference could have been the battery heater kicking in? Either way, this is why Nissan doesn't recommend Level 1 charging for everyday use, its just too slow for many people. Best case you are only adding about 4 to 5 miles for every hour you charge, no matter if this is a 2011/2015 Leaf with a 24 kWh battery, or a 2016 Leaf with a 30 kWh battery.
IIRR, Ingineer measured charging efficiency on L1 of the early LEAF as 75%, not ~85% (L2). 1.44 x .75 = 1.08, so the OP's drawing exactly the max they should be, assuming no improvement in L1 charging efficiency.
 
In addition to low voltage (120V) there might be voltage drop if you use extension cord or
wiring for that specific wall outlet is long or skinny.

To be honest 120V is just unbearable for 30kWh. In Europe the trickle charger sucks 10Amps, but at 230V.
That gives 2kW charging without that extra efficiency lost compared to 3.3kW charger.

So I hope you get your 240V charger ASAP. Enjoy new and better Leaf :)
 
All the more reason to find that house sooner! Interest rates are poised to creep up anyway. Good luck.

I'm sure you know where all the public stations are, any temporary opportunities there?
 
Psyclonus said:
Thanks, my wife is just a bit annoyed, as she was hoping to use this for her commute, which is 52 miles right now...
As most already know, the L1 EVSE is the problem, not the car. Assuming, 10 hr at work & commute, and 14 hr L1 charging x 1.2 KW x .75 = 12.6 KWh, then x 3.5 mi/KWh = 44 mi. So, it doesn't much matter whether the battery is 24 KWh or 30 KWh, you are pushing it to drive 52 mi/d using the existing L1, especially in a NE winter. Yes, it's possible, but not something most would want to do. Assuming perfect math, if you run short 8 mi per night x 5 wk days = 40 mi. Thus, if you start all the way full Monday morning before leaving, you "should" make it back Friday night before getting down to zero. Now, don't get me wrong, I like the L1 cord and use it for my 8 mi RT commute. It works great (except to preheat much below 20 F). Even 30-40 mi/day is doable. Beyond that, it gets a bit dicey, especially in winter. Once you get that L2 EVSE installed, the whole family will be much happier, nice pre-warmed car, ability to pickup a couple of KWh's at lunch/dinner/breaks, full charge every day as needed, etc. Here's to hoping you get that new house and L2 quickly!
 
Thanks! Yes, the car is working fine, the charge time estimates on the dash and in the app continue to be insanely long though. At 78% SOC this morning it was saying it would need 14:30 at Level 1 to charge, 6 hours at 3.6, and 4.5 hours at 6.6, which seems crazy.

There isn't a lot of public charging in the Omaha area, sadly, it's a very conservative city. Des Moines is a smaller city, but has a lot more public charging, and in useful places! In Omaha, the EVSE at Midtown Crossing is the only one near some place you'd want to hang out for a few hours (movie theatre nearby), the rest are all at car dealerships. I guess one could walk to the AMC at Westroads Mall from the Merkel BMW dealership (who has never had an i3 when I check their inventory, but they have an EVSE!)

I may just have to work out a timeshare, where I drive it two days a week, and she gets it three days per week until we get level 2 hooked up!
 
52 mile commute is probably doable but you will be charging near continuous on L1 with no extra time or miles to run any extra errands during the week.
Trick would be to charge at work. ;)
 
Yep, she drove it yesterday, and now, 24 hours later, it's at 95% SOC, but that's without running any errands or going out for dinner. She could probably drive it all week like this, and then fully recharge again on the weekend, but I imagine we'll work something out...
 
If you already had a leaf that you gave back, I don't understand why this new car is causing a new problem for you... On the old leaf, the 120v charger charges about 5 % per hour, so if you charge from 40%, you will need 12 hours to reach 100%. What you need is to Buy your L2 charger now, put the 240v plug on it, and find a place that has a 240v clothes dryer to plug into.. OR I found this on youtube a while ago... You plug in 2 different lines of 120 volt plugs from your apartment, and the box gives you 240 volts....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tousBn84r-I

http://www.quick220.com/page/cp-solutions-leaf.html
 
This is probably a long shot, but, there are a couple of PlugSharers residential listings around you, maybe something could be worked out for the interim?

Or, if you have a second mode of transport, leave and pick it up at a public station occasionally.

Just throwing ideas out there.
 
powersurge said:
If you already had a leaf that you gave back, I don't understand why this new car is causing a new problem for you... What you need is to Buy your L2 charger now ...

Just to restate the OP's current situation from his previous posts:
We're currently in an apartment, and hoping to buy a house in the next 6 months, so we're just using Level 1 charging at the moment.
we already have a L2 EVSE from our last house
 
The moral of the story is just to ignore the car's estimate of time to charge. It - like the GOM - is notoriously unreliable. It's probably just giving undue influence to temperature or the BMS needs time to "break in". Just follow the rule of thumb that you'll get about 1 kWh pumped into the pack for every hour on L1. So if you have 12 hours to charge every night, expect 12 kWh restored. Take note of how efficiently your wife drives and you'll see how much energy you need restored on a daily basis. For example, if she can achieve 4 miles/kWh, then 12 hours gives you 48 miles.

If this is enough then you can continue to use L1 without worry. If not either find a way to get more charging time, improve driving efficiency, decrease driving miles, or it just won't work. But you'll just have to try it out to see what happens. And the 30 kWh vs 24 kWh pack makes no difference - it's just the amount of miles you need restored daily that matters. Yes, if you burn a few more miles than you can restore every night you could squeak by with the full charge every weekend paradigm, and the bigger pack definitely helps with that, but I don't think you'd want to be in that situation.

What are the details of your charging situation? You say you're limited to 120V at your apartment, but how exactly? Are we talking an outlet in a carport, or an extension cord to the unit, or what? There's almost always some kind of path to 240V if you're determined enough. Standalone 120V outlets can possibly be converted, "Quick220"-type devices can possibly be set up, dryer outlets can possibly be found, etc. But yeah, just get that house soon and that solves everything.
 
To be clear, I wouldn't say the car is causing a problem for us. The actual charging times are right in line with what I expected, the initial estimates given by the car and the app were what was alarming to me, as I did not expect to ever be shown a 35+ hour recharge time at L1! My wife is probably just going to have to suffer driving my hail-damaged 2007 Dodge Magnum to work for another 6 months, while I get the shiny Blue Pearl LEAF to drive. :)
 
Like you mentioned you could just swap vehicles every other day or so. And that 35 hour time is amusing, I bet the last 15 hours are equalization charging (above 95% or so). If you can I would let it go over a weekend and let it fully charge to do all the equalizing it wants and I bet the estimated charge time after the first full charge or two will drop considerably.
 
Psyclonus said:
To be clear, I wouldn't say the car is causing a problem for us. The actual charging times are right in line with what I expected, the initial estimates given by the car and the app were what was alarming to me, as I did not expect to ever be shown a 35+ hour recharge time at L1! My wife is probably just going to have to suffer driving my hail-damaged 2007 Dodge Magnum to work for another 6 months, while I get the shiny Blue Pearl LEAF to drive. :)
You say the actual charging times are fine, but it still sounds like you're basing your decision on the erroneous estimated time to completion if you're concluding that your wife won't be able to use the Leaf. Now if that's the outcome that you really want ;) , that's one thing, but there's no harm in letting her try it out for a few days to see what happens. Just see how much charge she uses in a day, and if the Leaf's not back up to at least that much when it's time to go in the morning then you switch cars.
 
Back
Top