Uneven Tire wearout and attempt to fix

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vijayl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
83
Location
Fremont - CA
I'm on my 2nd set of Ecopias on my 2011 Leaf. Both sets worn out on the outer edge and I knew my alignment was good. Factory alignment is the result of uneven wear with 40psi on my Leaf.

I did some reading and checked the Toe and Camber. Both Toe and Camber are within the Nissan recommended Range. I wanted to try adjusting the Camber, but found out that it is not adjustable with factory set of bolts.
I went to Napa Auto Store picked up 2 Camber Adjustment Kit.
Before
Driver Side is + 0.25 deg
Passenger Side is -1.25 deg
After
Driver Side is -2.25 deg
Passenger Side is -3.0 deg

I rotated the tires and I've measured the Tread depth on both the front ones. After 6 months, I'll measure the wear again and report back.

If anyone else has done similar exercise, please let me know your results and camber setting.
 
vijayl said:
I'm on my 2nd set of Ecopias on my 2011 Leaf. Both sets worn out on the outer edge and I knew my alignment was good. Factory alignment is the result of uneven wear with 40psi on my Leaf.

I did some reading and checked the Toe and Camber. Both Toe and Camber are within the Nissan recommended Range. I wanted to try adjusting the Camber, but found out that it is not adjustable with factory set of bolts.
I went to Napa Auto Store picked up 2 Camber Adjustment Kit.
Before
Driver Side is + 0.25 deg
Passenger Side is -1.25 deg
After
Driver Side is -2.25 deg
Passenger Side is -3.0 deg

I rotated the tires and I've measured the Tread depth on both the front ones. After 6 months, I'll measure the wear again and report back.

If anyone else has done similar exercise, please let me know your results and camber setting.

The leading cause of outer edge wear on modern vehicles is over-enthusiastic cornering..... :lol:
 
vijayl said:
... If anyone else has done similar exercise, please let me know your results and camber setting.
Did you see drees previous post?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19390&hilit=camber&start=10#p415850

EDIT: Link corrected.
 
hieronymous said:
The leading cause of outer edge wear on modern vehicles is over-enthusiastic cornering..... :lol:

Confirmed. :oops:

The LEAF has wimpy tires for its weight, and they chew through front tires like crazy if you are a spirited driver. I particularly enjoy making the tires scream while cornering, and then regret it when I buy a new set. If I didn't do snow tires, I would probably be at the end of my third set now with about 42,000 miles.
 
drees said:
How are you measuring your camber?

Did you also check your toe settings before/after, too?
Using this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/281761607963
Yes,I did check the Toe after and its within the range..
 
TimLee said:
vijayl said:
... If anyone else has done similar exercise, please let me know your results and camber setting.
Did you see drees previous post?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=259
Couldn't find any reference, appreciate if you have it handy and can post it...

hieronymous said:
The leading cause of outer edge wear on modern vehicles is over-enthusiastic cornering..... :lol:
None of my other cars do this to me and many of other EVs don't do outer wear on the tires. May be the Ecopias are very sensitive to cornering. I'm trying to minimize this by adjusting the Camber
 
vijayl said:
drees said:
How are you measuring your camber?

Did you also check your toe settings before/after, too?
Using this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/281761607963
Yes,I did check the Toe after and its within the range..
Cool - 2.25-3.00* of camber is a lot - I suspect you may start to see wear on the inside edge now unless you are absolutely sure that toe is still slightly in. But I bet that you get a bit more grip from the front end with all that camber!

There is enough play in the stock bolts to get a bit over one degree of negative camber in the stock bolts, but I haven't measured all that accurately. I'm not running EP422s, though so I can't tell you if my tread wear improved because of slightly more negative camber, or because of the tires.
 
drees said:
vijayl said:
Using this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/281761607963
Yes,I did check the Toe after and its within the range..
Cool - 2.25-3.00* of camber is a lot - I suspect you may start to see wear on the inside edge now unless you are absolutely sure that toe is still slightly in. But I bet that you get a bit more grip from the front end with all that camber!

There is enough play in the stock bolts to get a bit over one degree of negative camber in the stock bolts, but I haven't measured all that accurately. I'm not running EP422s, though so I can't tell you if my tread wear improved because of slightly more negative camber, or because of the tires.
I've ordered the Tein H Springs. When I replace those, I'll change the Camber to 2* and adjust the Toe again if necessary..

TimLee said:
vijayl said:
Couldn't find any reference, appreciate if you have it handy and can post it...
Link corrected.
Thank you Tim.
Yes, I have the same Longacre toe measuring tools that Drees recommended and The Camber measuring tool is pretty good as well.
 
I am an alignment tech in a small speciality shop. I drive Leafs, but have not personally experienced tire wear bad enough to bother doing any alignments on a Leaf yet. So my comments are general, but there is no reason why a Leaf would be any different than a Prius as far as tire wear analysis and remediation goes.

TIRE PRESSURES. Low pressure can exacerbate wear issues, but won't cause excess wear (assuming your TPMS light is not on...). In other words, the actual problem is elsewhere. But, I don't see any reason to avoid running tires at much higher pressures that the manufacturers recommend. You can safely put your tire pressures anywhere between:

Lowest acceptable tire pressure is on the door sticker, or in the owner manual- AKA the manufacturers recommendation.
Highest acceptable pressure is what the actual tire states, on the sidewall, as its max inflation pressure. Every tire has this on it. Most nowadays are 46 to 56 psi. No harm will come to your car if you run the tires at their max pressure.

Tire pressures at this high end give you much better energy economy, but a harsh ride. I prefer around 42 psi, as a good compromise. Only check your tire pressures cold, and consider direct sunlight the same as a hot tire. Never check them hot-it will just scare you!


BELIEVE IT OR NOT Most tire wear problems I see actually originate in the back of the car, in the rear suspension, or, even more often, behind the steering wheel. Ha, Ha. But true. The loose nut behind the steering wheel... So if your alignment is ok and your tires are losing their edges, look no further than your driving style. Especially if this is front tire edge wear.

ANALYZING PROBLEMS. If you rotate your tires too often, you will not be able to analyze the wear patterns and thus discern which corner of the car the problem is on, and whether is it a camber or toe issue. Camber is the tilt of the top of the wheel inboard or outboard and toe is the projected track of the wheel, and how far off from straight ahead it is. Five to fifteen thousand is a typical mileage at which tire wear becomes noticeable and diagnosable on the average car with issues. If you are seeing tire wear before this, it should be pretty easy to diagnose.

Very generally speaking, toe issues tend to cause feathering, and camber issues cause edge wear (and a type of edge wear called cupping). Lots of exceptions and blended wear happens, but this is a coarse rule of thumb. Feathering is discernible by sliding your hand around tire clockwise, then counterclockwise. Going one direction, the tread blocks will feel soft. Going the other direction the tread block edges feel sharp or raspy. Feathering comes from the feel of feathers on a bird. They could have used the fur comparison too. If you ever pet your cat or dog against the fur grain, well, you get the idea. But they called it feathering because it sounds cooler than furring!!

Edge wear means that the inside edge and/or the outside edge(s) are worn while the center of the tread is much less disturbed. Cupping is edge wear which is not even, but presents as flat spots or even scallops.

It is said that the rear suspension angles are not adjustable, but this is just 'towing the party line'. Most of my tire wear alignments are done on the supposedly nonadjustable rear suspensions (like a Prius or a Leaf). A really good alignment tech has access to either aftermarket shims or can fabricate shims to fine tune even a solid beam axle with a hub bolted to it, as the Leaf has.

THE NUMBERS, which I use on a typical front wheel drive/beam rear axle car are as follows. (Note the cambers are all negative numbers, meaning the top of the wheel is tipped in, closer to the center line of the car than the bottom.)
Front camber, between -.5 and -1.0 deg. Closer to -.5 if possible
Front toe zero
Rear camber also between -.5 and -1.0 deg -.75 seems to return the best handling/wear compromise.
Rear toe .3 to .4 inches (I shoot for .17 per side). Sorry, you can translate deg or mm if you don't like inches.

Front and rear, caster, toe, and camber should be within the manufacturers specs, unless you know what you are doing and have a good reason to deviate from that. None of these angles should vary from one side to the other by more than half on a degree. EG, -.4 on the right and -1.0 on the left is not acceptable, while -.4 and -.9 just barely does make it. Toe has to be equal left/right.

AND Camber out of these ranges as mentioned in a previous post will cause noticeable to extreme tire wear. Most alignment shops will try to solve tire wear in their front adjustments, and tell you the rear cannot be done. But you can tell by holding off rotating the tires and watching for wear in the back versus front. A problem in the front cannot cause wear in the rear and vv.

I hope this helps some of you.
 
Thanks EVOldTimer (I couldn't figure out how you are a EV OldTimer :roll: ) and others for your input. I took your suggestions and read-up more and decided to go with factory recommendation with a slight toe-out. I lowered my 2011 Leaf with Tein Springs. Adjusting the Toe manually takes lot of time for me and I'll take it to tire shop for alignment. I'll report it back after a week or so..
 
Im new here and I am having problems with tire wear because of the alignment im really frustrated with the car and Nissan who refuse to do anything about it. ive had it aligned 4 times and it has changed evertime but Nissan refuses to do anything because its out but not out of spec. the tech. at the indepent alignment shop says its a bad design and everything is small and in his opinion thats why im having the issues. Anyone else frustrated with the same things?
 
EVOldtimer said:
I am an alignment tech in a small speciality shop. I drive Leafs, but have not personally experienced tire wear bad enough to bother doing any alignments on a Leaf yet. So my comments are general, but there is no reason why a Leaf would be any different than a Prius as far as tire wear analysis and remediation goes.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT Most tire wear problems I see actually originate in the back of the car, in the rear suspension, or, even more often, behind the steering wheel. Ha, Ha. But true. The loose nut behind the steering wheel... So if your alignment is ok and your tires are losing their edges, look no further than your driving style. Especially if this is front tire edge wear.

ANALYZING PROBLEMS. If you rotate your tires too often, you will not be able to analyze the wear patterns and thus discern which corner of the car the problem is on, and whether is it a camber or toe issue. Camber is the tilt of the top of the wheel inboard or outboard and toe is the projected track of the wheel, and how far off from straight ahead it is. Five to fifteen thousand is a typical mileage at which tire wear becomes noticeable and diagnosable on the average car with issues. If you are seeing tire wear before this, it should be pretty easy to diagnose.

Edge wear means that the inside edge and/or the outside edge(s) are worn while the center of the tread is much less disturbed. Cupping is edge wear which is not even, but presents as flat spots or even scallops.

It is said that the rear suspension angles are not adjustable, but this is just 'towing the party line'. Most of my tire wear alignments are done on the supposedly nonadjustable rear suspensions (like a Prius or a Leaf). A really good alignment tech has access to either aftermarket shims or can fabricate shims to fine tune even a solid beam axle with a hub bolted to it, as the Leaf has.

Hi,
I thought i'd post this question in response to the following, as I don't know much about all the above, but am suffering from uneven tire wear on the rear tires.
I must add that I am from the U.K., and there seems an increasing number of us suffering from this. It's mainly 1 of the rear tires, and its always the outside edge that wears out, way before the inner edge. (e.g I have 2mm on outside edge, 4mm on inside edge left)
Nissan say its normal, etc.. any they cant make adjustments to the rear, but I just wanted to see if its a 'European' leaf issue only.
I am documenting the issue here : https://thisnthat101.wordpress.com/2016/02/24/nissan-leaf-abnormal-wear-to-rear-tyres/

and I am gathering information from other users, as Nissan are not admitting any issue, and maybe there is no problem.

Any help, advice, suggestions greatly appreciated..

Thanks,
Keith.
 
I have not seen anyone speak of what mileages are they replacing the tires. If you are getting 40-45K on a set of cheap ecopia tires, isn't it just as easy to replace them instead of playing with suspension mods and alignment adjustments?

I have 20K on my leaf and no significant wear on any wheel. When I did go over a very deep pothole and bubbled the tire, I got an alignment done, and it was still on the money. Now I have a Lifetime alignment agreement at Firestone Tires, and will have the alignment done every year as long as I own it.
 
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