I just loss my 4th bar, could there be a 5th loss bar not

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mark1313

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
144
Location
Phoenix Arizona.
far behind ....The summer is still young and very hot and I believe that there is a chance of a 5th bar to drop in the next 8 weeks... My problem is that I drive 60 miles to and from work and even averaging 6.5 M/KW I do not have a lot of miles left @ the end of the day..

Ill visit Nissan Thursday and see what my best options are ...If they just do a partial battery fix back to 9 bars, I could be bringing the car back in every few months ...

I would imagine that all the battery fixes are really going to pile up on Nissan until they install a proper cooling method for the Leaf...
 
my bet is you end up with a new or very new pack. its not like there are a lot of reconditioned packs Nissan has laying around

you are early in the issue, you will likely get new

early on in any program like this they have "seed" units, new products put in the system to get the program started.
 
mark1313: Sorry for your loss -- I got my Leaf about the same time as you, but in TN.

As the effects of GW become more severe -- flooding, excessive heat, drought and fires, sea level rise, etc I hope the elites of the world respond accordingly -- we Leafers (and others) have already begun to try to do our part. But regardless it seems to me that some areas of the country are going to become more or less unlivable -- for sure many low-lying coastal areas. Is there also a point at which currently relatively high populated areas like yours are in danger of becoming largely uninhabitable [Edit Update: I guess a better word is "unsustainable"] for all practical purposes? Living there, do you have a sense if such a point exists?

Last summer, we hit 110 here for the first time that I can remember (although this summer it has been extraordinarily wet so far). When hot weather returns, I have the luxury of driving another car (being retired I can react by reducing my mileage also -- I only average 20 miles per day as it is). But that will only work if the hot spells only last a short time, after all I am trying NOT add more CO2!

Well, I was just curious if you had any thoughts you wanted to share (or good articles to link to)...
 
mark1313 said:
far behind ....The summer is still young and very hot and I believe that there is a chance of a 5th bar to drop in the next 8 weeks... My problem is that I drive 60 miles to and from work and even averaging 6.5 M/KW I do not have a lot of miles left @ the end of the day..

Ill visit Nissan Thursday and see what my best options are ...If they just do a partial battery fix back to 9 bars, I could be bringing the car back in every few months ...

I would imagine that all the battery fixes are really going to pile up on Nissan until they install a proper cooling method for the Leaf...
Have you had the s/w update yet? I think I was close to losing the 4th, but they reset the BMS (gave me back at 12 bars) so I am looking at 2 months minimum for it to return to it's original state (unless they changed the time-constant associated with the cap bars).
 
TickTock said:
mark1313 said:
far behind ....The summer is still young and very hot and I believe that there is a chance of a 5th bar to drop in the next 8 weeks... My problem is that I drive 60 miles to and from work and even averaging 6.5 M/KW I do not have a lot of miles left @ the end of the day..

Ill visit Nissan Thursday and see what my best options are ...If they just do a partial battery fix back to 9 bars, I could be bringing the car back in every few months ...

I would imagine that all the battery fixes are really going to pile up on Nissan until they install a proper cooling method for the Leaf...
Have you had the s/w update yet? I think I was close to losing the 4th, but they reset the BMS (gave me back at 12 bars) so I am looking at 2 months minimum for it to return to it's original state (unless they changed the time-constant associated with the cap bars).
Do you really have actual 12 bar range? You can't invent real battery capacity. If you really have full range your battery really has that capacity. The bms should reset after one cycle if it's that far off.
 
TickTock said:
mark1313 said:
far behind ....The summer is still young and very hot and I believe that there is a chance of a 5th bar to drop in the next 8 weeks... My problem is that I drive 60 miles to and from work and even averaging 6.5 M/KW I do not have a lot of miles left @ the end of the day..

Ill visit Nissan Thursday and see what my best options are ...If they just do a partial battery fix back to 9 bars, I could be bringing the car back in every few months ...

I would imagine that all the battery fixes are really going to pile up on Nissan until they install a proper cooling method for the Leaf...
Have you had the s/w update yet? I think I was close to losing the 4th, but they reset the BMS (gave me back at 12 bars) so I am looking at 2 months minimum for it to return to it's original state (unless they changed the time-constant associated with the cap bars).


where did this come from. no other person has gotten bars back much less for 2or 3 bar loss. please elaborate , photos would be nice. maybe others smarter than me and help you explain but I am thinking BS at this point.
 
dm33 said:
TickTock said:
mark1313 said:
far behind ....The summer is still young and very hot and I believe that there is a chance of a 5th bar to drop in the next 8 weeks... My problem is that I drive 60 miles to and from work and even averaging 6.5 M/KW I do not have a lot of miles left @ the end of the day..

Ill visit Nissan Thursday and see what my best options are ...If they just do a partial battery fix back to 9 bars, I could be bringing the car back in every few months ...

I would imagine that all the battery fixes are really going to pile up on Nissan until they install a proper cooling method for the Leaf...
Have you had the s/w update yet? I think I was close to losing the 4th, but they reset the BMS (gave me back at 12 bars) so I am looking at 2 months minimum for it to return to it's original state (unless they changed the time-constant associated with the cap bars).
Do you really have actual 12 bar range? You can't invent real battery capacity. If you really have full range your battery really has that capacity. The bms should reset after one cycle if it's that far off.
No, i don't. This happened last year when they reset it. No additional capacity, it just takes months for the cap bars to recover and properly reflect the battery capacity after getting reset to 12.
 
mksE55 said:
TickTock said:
mark1313 said:
far behind ....The summer is still young and very hot and I believe that there is a chance of a 5th bar to drop in the next 8 weeks... My problem is that I drive 60 miles to and from work and even averaging 6.5 M/KW I do not have a lot of miles left @ the end of the day..

Ill visit Nissan Thursday and see what my best options are ...If they just do a partial battery fix back to 9 bars, I could be bringing the car back in every few months ...

I would imagine that all the battery fixes are really going to pile up on Nissan until they install a proper cooling method for the Leaf...
Have you had the s/w update yet? I think I was close to losing the 4th, but they reset the BMS (gave me back at 12 bars) so I am looking at 2 months minimum for it to return to it's original state (unless they changed the time-constant associated with the cap bars).


where did this come from. no other person has gotten bars back much less for 2or 3 bar loss. please elaborate , photos would be nice. maybe others smarter than me and help you explain but I am thinking BS at this point.
Actually I got 2 bars back last year when they reset it. Went from 10 to 12 (but they recovered back to 10 after about 2.5 months). Again no increase in capacity - just a slow software algorithm for determining number of bars. Sorry for the blurry photo - I guess my finger must've smudged the lens. This was take at the dealer just after the update (went in with 9 capbars).
 

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TickTock said:
No, i don't. This happened last year when they reset it. No additional capacity, it just takes months for the cap bars to recover and properly reflect the battery capacity after getting reset to 12.
Did you have any change in Gids (like some have reported after the update), and if so did the increase in Gids persist?
 
Stoaty said:
TickTock said:
No, i don't. This happened last year when they reset it. No additional capacity, it just takes months for the cap bars to recover and properly reflect the battery capacity after getting reset to 12.
Did you have any change in Gids (like some have reported after the update), and if so did the increase in Gids persist?
Prior to the update, I was getting between 194-198 gids for a 100% charge. First 100% charge afterwards (this morning) reached 201 gids so it does appear there was a slight increase. Nothing like what I saw last year when they did this. Then, my 100% charge went from 213 gids to 231 (but even then I saw no clear increase in range or capacity).
 
TickTock said:
Prior to the update, I was getting between 194-198 gids for a 100% charge. First 100% charge afterwards (this morning) reached 201 gids so it does appear there was a slight increase. Nothing like what I saw last year when they did this. Then, my 100% charge went from 213 gids to 231 (but even then I saw no clear increase in range or capacity).
I'm starting to think they may have updated you to 2013 code last summer. I'll note that TaylorSFGuy gained back some Gids for a while when he got the recent update. Perhaps you already had something similar, so your update this time around was more of a reset. Who knows?
 
RegGuheert said:
TickTock said:
Prior to the update, I was getting between 194-198 gids for a 100% charge. First 100% charge afterwards (this morning) reached 201 gids so it does appear there was a slight increase. Nothing like what I saw last year when they did this. Then, my 100% charge went from 213 gids to 231 (but even then I saw no clear increase in range or capacity).
I'm starting to think they may have updated you to 2013 code last summer. I'll note that TaylorSFGuy gained back some Gids for a while when he got the recent update. Perhaps you already had something similar, so your update this time around was more of a reset. Who knows?
I don't think this explains why my SOH dropped so much with the recent update. Also, on the prior, my gids *did* return to the pre-update value. The increase was just a temporary phenomenon cause by resetting. Based on others' experience, I don't think the reset is a necessary part of the update but my dealer seems to like to.
 
I went to my Nissan dealership today ..The person in charge of getting Leafs fixed was on the phone with another Leaf owner who also loss the 4th bar ..When he got off the phone he looked @ me and said you just loss your 4th bar didn't you. YUP ...
He told me to bring the Leaf in next week and they will run a official test on it first that will last 2 days, after the test is over I pick up the car and they will order me a new battery, he made me very happy.. He said it takes at least a week for a new battery to arrive once it is ordered..
He said that currently there are 8 Leafs that are getting new batteries in the Phx. area, 2 @ my dealership..

Nissan did make me very happy today and I will write a letter to thank them them for the battery replacement once it is done....
Because of what Nissan is doing with the battery replacement, I will trade this Leaf in for a new one next year, if the same battery warranty continues or they change the battery cooling system ..
Thanks Nissan for coming through for us . :D
 
mark1313 said:
He said that currently there are 8 Leafs that are getting new batteries in the Phx. area, 2 @ my dealership..

Nissan did make me very happy today and I will write a letter to thank them them for the battery replacement once it is done....

Mark, congrats! I'm glad you're happy and I'm glad they are making it right for you. However, I think we were intentionally misled. Nissan knew this was going to happen, but still made Phoenix a launch market and continues to sell the car here without a hot climate disclaimer.

Below is a quote from a post by Charles Whalen over at gm-volt on 10/4/2010 - almost 3 years ago! It is amazingly prescient:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5243-Volt-thermal-management-system-temperature-band&p=43641#post4364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan knows and acknowledges that they’re going to have to replace battery packs early, under warranty, in hot climates. (I’ve been in meetings with fleet customers in hot climates where I’ve seen Nissan tell them to expect a 4 to 5 year battery pack life, which is why Nissan is urging them to take the Leaf on a 3-year lease, rather than purchase.) Nissan has done their own financial cost-benefit/trade-off analysis whereby they determined that it will be cheaper for them to replace a few battery packs early, under warranty, in those few hot-climate areas of the country, for those few customers who don’t take the hint to take the Leaf on a 3-year lease rather than purchase, than it would have been for them to design, engineer, develop, and manufacture a sophisticated and relatively expensive active-cooled TMS, especially when most of the country probably won’t need it (as much). (It’s just in really hot climates where the economics strongly favor going with an active-cooled TMS.) For Nissan, it was simply a cold, hard-nosed business decision.

They knew this was coming - hence, the buy backs last year, subsequent capacity warranty, and now replacements.

I'm glad they are giving you and others a replacement, but many of us last year went through a lot of stress and did a lot of work when this started, and at the time Nissan simply told us it was "normal."

We deserve much more honesty, especially as early adopters for such a new type of car.

I also give Nissan credit for acting on this, when legally, in the original paperwork we all signed, don't think they really had to do a thing.

It still leaves a bitter taste and I'm just glad there are more EV choices as when I first joined this party in 2011. No way will I buy or even lease another EV in this climate with the current battery technology without a TMS.
 
mark1313 said:
I went to my Nissan dealership today ..The person in charge of getting Leafs fixed was on the phone with another Leaf owner who also loss the 4th bar ..When he got off the phone he looked @ me and said you just loss your 4th bar didn't you. YUP ...
He told me to bring the Leaf in next week and they will run a official test on it first that will last 2 days, after the test is over I pick up the car and they will order me a new battery, he made me very happy.. He said it takes at least a week for a new battery to arrive once it is ordered..
He said that currently there are 8 Leafs that are getting new batteries in the Phx. area, 2 @ my dealership..
Glad to hear that they are doing the right thing.

Maybe now would be a good time to offer discounts on 24 month leases and quit selling cars in PHX at all.
 
I took the Leaf in for its pre-battery exchange inspection today.. I was told it was going to take 2 days, so I ask for a rental car, it ended up taking 2 hours :eek: Im not sure what the battery inspection was for, I guess the minus 4 bars on the dash were not official enough ..

I was told the battery is on order now and it would take a week to 10 days before it arrives @ the dealership.. We figured if the battery gets put in soon enough that I should be good for another exchange in 2 years just before the warranty runs out :D
 
I wonder if they'll be using the redesigned '13 LEAF modules for these replacements rather than the '11-12 LEAF modules? They're supposed to drop on in, and if it's only going to take 10 days to get the pack I must be getting shipped domestically via freight...
 
mark1313 said:
I went to my Nissan dealership today ..The person in charge of getting Leafs fixed was on the phone with another Leaf owner who also loss the 4th bar ..When he got off the phone he looked @ me and said you just loss your 4th bar didn't you. YUP ...
He told me to bring the Leaf in next week and they will run a official test on it first that will last 2 days, after the test is over I pick up the car and they will order me a new battery, he made me very happy.. He said it takes at least a week for a new battery to arrive once it is ordered..
He said that currently there are 8 Leafs that are getting new batteries in the Phx. area, 2 @ my dealership..
eight?!? one dealer? jeez ... can anyone say liquid cooling next time around?
 
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