How many have changed brake pads? At what mileage? Record?

Slow1 said:

Nubo said:

As the cells degrade their internal resistance rises. Internal resistance is one of the factors that determines the maximum acceptable charge rate. Consider regen to be a form of fast-charging. As the internal resistance increases and the overall capacity decreases, the maximum charge rate will decrease. The computer adjusts the regen parameters to match this reality.

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So then is it correct to assume that the same effect will affect DCQC? i.e. as batteries age/degrade the maximum DCQC rate will decrease?

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I would expect DCQC performance to be reduced too. But keep in mind that the average LEAF pack may experience much more kWH over its life from regen than it does from ChaDeMo. And so when programming the firmware, a decision might be made to limit regen more rigorously than DCQC. a) it's likely to have a bigger effect b) for many drivers there would be less perceived inconvenience for somewhat reduced regen as compared to a lengthier DCQC stop. The final parameters are not only driven by the pack's physical maximum capabilities, but by goals such as extending pack longevity. Earlier LEAFs seem to have been hit with regen reductions by firmware updates while newer models seem to have robust regen profiles. I would speculate this derives from attempts to mitigate the degradation problems of earlier models.

JeremyW said:

knightmb said:

Max regen hits 30kW, so unless someone has a video to prove that a degraded battery can't regen back at this level under 80% charge, I would say the information is incorrect.

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I'll happily provide a youtube video tomorrow!

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXv_panUcB8[/youtube]

And so really, the answer to the what and why is, "because the computer has decided that's what you're getting". Now, that is based on the aforementioned conditions (battery + weather), but that doesn't mean it has to do sensible things. 'Cuz the computer is programed by...people.

When the regen is severely limited, it acts just like it did when it was charged to 100%. And as to the question about "accelerator" versus "brake" regen, pressing the brake isn't going to give you much more regen--it's already at its limit. I've had it where using the brakes made no change in the amount of regen. And so I knew that anything I added was all friction brake at that point. I don't think the brakes got used much until last year. The update to P3227, plus the summer months put it well into "degrading battery behavior".

The regen improves markedly when the battery heats up (at least for my 30,000 mile car). But that's at temps in excess of 80F, which is not so nice for battery longevity. I guess you really can't win.

It will be hot in S. Cal for the next two days. You guys down here take note of how the regen picks up as the battery warms up.

I had 2001 Prius for 14 years,never replaced brake pads.Prius has good regen.brakes like Leaf.

when I lost 4 bar on my car, regen would only get about 17kw, you can't get 30kw

I concur. I never saw over about 15kW on my Lincomatic toward the end... I didn't check the brake pads near the end so I have no idea how much was left then...

downforceusa said:

when I lost 4 bar on my car, regen would only get about 17kw, you can't get 30kw

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41,337 miles still on original brake pads. 2 CB bars down almost 3 and regen sucks. Oh and I am having to use more brakes. The Leaf will just coast through the red light if I don't apply brakes in ECO mode.

Fred

DNAinaGoodWay said:

Roadburner440 said:

Well to answer the original question I am at 36 months, 28,887 miles, and just had my annual inspection & battery check performed. My front brakes were at 6mm, and the rear brakes were at 7mm which is just about halfway worn. The service advisor cautioned me that I should keep an eye on them, but I think it will be fine. I have a lot of stop and go traffic with the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel everyday and such, and base traffic going in to Naval Station Norfolk. So my brakes will not be representative of the majority, but most likely accelerated wear.

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Thanks for that. Your scenario probably comes closest to the worst case for brake wear in a LEAF.

Under this type of use, wouldn't the weight of the LEAF tend to wear the pads more than a similar sized ICE?

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Most likely your brake pad life will vary considerably based on location. Here in the rust-belt the concern is with corroded rotors, salt in the hardware, and the friction pads separating from their backing plates. It's not so much wearing out but falling apart. My Leaf had it's 1st Annual Check last week, they disassembled & lubed brake hardware.

JimSouCal said:

After an atypical near freezing weather overnight fall season mountain stay at about 6,500 elevation, and charged to 80% on my 11bar MY2011 LEAF, I experienced almost zero regen braking (and no charging) on the descent to 1000 ft.

It's an easy step in logic that anyone commuting regularly in such conditions will wear through pads more rapidly than typical LEAF drivers, and with the larger weight of battery pack, perhaps more...

Member Abasile might eventually comment, or those who commute down to Denver from higher elevations...

My empirical observation is the regen is greatly reduced as compared to the first software implementation as sold.

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I just saw this. When I was commuting down/up our mountain most weekdays for almost two years, the battery was a bit newer and the combination of the high battery usage and time spent down in the Valley generally kept the average battery temperature high enough to avoid completely losing my regen. I still had to descend more slowly than desired (~30-40 mph instead of 50-55 mph) to get enough regen to avoid overheating the friction brakes, due to a LEAF software bug that further limits regen at higher speeds.

If I were still doing that commute, it would only be practical in the LEAF (now at 10/12 capacity bars) if I were able to leave my mountain home at a low SOC and get a full charge every day at work. (That would presuppose employer support for charging at work, not something to take for granted.)

I don't think our LEAF's brake pads are going to last as long as those on our family's Prius (now almost 100K miles on original pads) but they are doing better than the pads on a regular gas car for sure. (Because of its integration with the ICE, Prius 'B' mode works great at avoiding brake wear regardless of outside temperature or battery SOC.)

When we eventually acquire a used Tesla, I imagine we'll keep it charged below 80% (thanks to the adjustable charge slider) and take simple steps to pre-heat the battery during the colder months.

Original pads at 53,700 miles. Don't know the thicknesses; I just wait for the squeekers to engage and then replace as required.

Interesting thread here. I read all this and then went outside with a flashlight to look at my brake pads and I estimate I have 10 mm of front and 8 mm of back. That's the outside pads. Not sure of the inside pads (should be similiar). I usually get 3 bubbles of regen ok though maybe not all the time.

rogersleaf said:

... It's not so much wearing out but falling apart. My Leaf had it's 1st Annual Check last week, they disassembled & lubed brake hardware.

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Is that normal standard service by your dealer in Kent, OH?
I am having my four year anniversary battery "test" tomorrow, plan to have brake fluid flushed and refilled for the second time per Nissan maintenance schedule, and complimentary full vehicle inspection.
But at 25,000 miles brake hardware has never been disassembled and lubed.
But salt on roads is infrequent in Chattanooga.
Two weeks at most on average.

I still have not had P3227 done and will avoid it tomorrow.
Regen a bit less than original with Hx around 70%.
Only around 30 kW in winter with battery below 60F.
full 50 kW plus with battery warm in 75F to 80F range.
Not sure about brake pad thickness.
Will ask for it on report tomorrow.

I just had my battery pack replaced under warranty, and can confirm that regen braking was severely degraded as my old pack lost three and then four bars. Regen is back in business with the new pack. I am hopeful that the past year or so of too much friction braking has not had meaningful brake pad degradation. My hope is to drive my LEAF for 100k-200k miles without ever needing to replace the brakes. That will be amazing.

suwaneedad said:

My hope is to drive my LEAF for 100k-200k miles without ever needing to replace the brakes. That will be amazing.

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You and me both!

I have 112,000 miles on my 2012 SL, and my right rear brake is making a moaning noise, so I guess the time has come to replace the pads. I am down to 7 bars capacity and my regenerative braking has not been working for quite some time now.

I can't complain, though. I had to put a lower control arm on the front left to pass inspection last year, but other than that and wiper blades and tires I have spent $0 on the car.

I just hit 90,000 miles and I'm planning on replacing my brake pads.
When I look at the brakes through the tires they look like there is less than 1/4 inch left.
I am driving a 2011 Nissan Leaf

I'm probably going to do mine before the summer heat comes in whether they need it or not. Currently at 78,000 miles. Have the new pads in the garage for when I'm ready.

50,422 miles on 2011--brake pads probably had a lot of life left.
72,000+ miles so far on 2015. I looked at the pads when I got new tires 6,000 miles ago and they appeared to have a lot of life left. Wear rate is probably increasing since regeneration is not as good now as when the car was new due to battery deterioration (still much better than 2011 in cool temperatures).

Over 125k on 2015 / Original owner with 3 bars lost.

I am rotating the tires and will inspect & report front/rear pad.

The 2015 still had original brake pads in good condition when I traded it at 82,436 miles. Over 50,000 miles on the 2019 with original brake pads and rotors still in good shape.