amissionleaf
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 302367

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:32 am

wch wrote:I just got the firmware update, and my SoH went from 85.78% to 93.75%. I have a 2016 SL with 4400 miles, which I bought essentially new about 8 months ago.


SOH_post = 57 + 0.43 * SOH_pre =57 + 0.43 * 85.78 = 93.89, pretty close to your measured SOH 93.75
2014 S; 33500 miles, returned with 12 bars.
2017 SV; 20000+ miles, sw update 10/8/18, feels like 15 miles range back,. SOH 91.5% on 10/19/18

amissionleaf
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 302367

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:46 am

bedoig wrote:Checking in. My rough timeline (I didn't track this very thoroughly):

Sep-2017 - 79% SOH, one bar lost
Dec-2017 - 72% SOH, still at one bar loss
...
Didn't track / post, but lost bars two and three in this period
...
Sep-2018 - 63% SOH, still at three bar loss
Oct-2018 - 59% SOH, still at three bar loss

For the record I haven't done the battery firmware update yet. I kind of wanted to drop the fourth bar first just to document it.

Conventional wisdom around here has seemed to indicate loss of the fourth bar around 64% SOH but I'm now well below that. Anybody have any thoughts on what other metrics drive the bar losses? I'm assuming there is some kind of time / distance requirement on top of the direct measurements the battery is providing. Feels like I should have dropped that next bar already. My real world range from 100% down to several miles below VLB is now somewhere in the 70-80 mile range. This isn't going to cut it during the winter for my 67 mile round trip commute.

Image

Image

Image

Hmm... images don't seem to be working. Shared folder should be here though: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hJ8RPakgdu2X5Q138


Just did the math for your case, your SOH after sw update would be close to 82% and probably bring back all lost bars. But the EPA would be 107 *.82 = 88 miles. it might be very tough for your commute in the worst winter days if you have the S trim.
2014 S; 33500 miles, returned with 12 bars.
2017 SV; 20000+ miles, sw update 10/8/18, feels like 15 miles range back,. SOH 91.5% on 10/19/18

johnlocke
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:10 pm

Oct update. I now have about 7000 mi on the new battery after 4 1/2 months. I'm showing the first signs of detirioration already. Stats as of Nov 1.

359 GID's, AH=78.47, SOH=98.73% Hx=90.30%. 51819 mi (6890 mi. on new bat.). 120 L3 (6 on new bat.), 1005 L2 (131on new bat.),

Going by AH, I'm down by 4.5% from new. GID's value didn't budge for the first 3 months and is now dropping. Annual loss is estimated at 11% at the current rate. I'm still expecting the loss to slow over the winter but time will tell. At the current rate, the battery will just miss the 100K warranty. So maybe 60k before the fourth bar drops on the new battery. If the detirioration slows in the winter, then maybe 70-75K before the fourth bar drops. I certainly wouldn't expect much better than that.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

JTim
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:56 am
Delivery Date: 16 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 1024

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:43 am

JTim wrote:
Stanton wrote:
JTim wrote:
Counted 11 battery capacity bars this morning 3/22/17.

ODO 6,157
AHr=65.42
Hx=80.04
SOH=82%

Tim


So after ~18 months, it's almost like you have a "new" 24 kWHr battery pack??


Took delivery 12/15/15, so 12/15/16 was 1 year-ish -- could be closer to 14 or 15 months?

JTim


1st Bar Drop since battery re-programming
11/2/18 charging 20% to 100%, ODO 15,799, reset Trip B) 94.2 (since last charge)
SOH 83.37 AR 67.06 HX 62.84 (59-degrees outside)
L1/2 430 QC 18
6/26/18 reprogramming battery controller ODO 13,518
JTim
Fort Worth, TX
Man. Date: 12/15
Delivered 12-16-2015
Glacier White, 2016 SV, 30 kwh

jbuntz
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:58 am

bedoig wrote:Checking in. My rough timeline (I didn't track this very thoroughly):

Sep-2017 - 79% SOH, one bar lost
Dec-2017 - 72% SOH, still at one bar loss
...
Didn't track / post, but lost bars two and three in this period
...
Sep-2018 - 63% SOH, still at three bar loss
Oct-2018 - 59% SOH, still at three bar loss
Some did not lose the 4th bar until as low as 54.98 SOH. Mine dropped at 63.55.

For the record I haven't done the battery firmware update yet. I kind of wanted to drop the fourth bar first just to document it.

Conventional wisdom around here has seemed to indicate loss of the fourth bar around 64% SOH but I'm now well below that. Anybody have any thoughts on what other metrics drive the bar losses? I'm assuming there is some kind of time / distance requirement on top of the direct measurements the battery is providing. Feels like I should have dropped that next bar already. My real world range from 100% down to several miles below VLB is now somewhere in the 70-80 mile range. This isn't going to cut it during the winter for my 67 mile round trip commute.

Image

Image

Image

Hmm... images don't seem to be working. Shared folder should be here though: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hJ8RPakgdu2X5Q138
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
Date Bar MI GID Ahr SOH
05/17 12 05175 324 70.75 89
08/17 11 09245 282 61.68 77
10/17 10 12000 260 57.22 71
01/18 09 15329 244 53.72 68
06/20 08 21716 230 50.41 63
06/27 11 22047 296 66.01 83 Aftr Updt

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:46 pm

johnlocke wrote:Oct update. I now have about 7000 mi on the new battery after 4 1/2 months. I'm showing the first signs of detirioration already. Stats as of Nov 1.

359 GID's, AH=78.47, SOH=98.73% Hx=90.30%. 51819 mi (6890 mi. on new bat.). 120 L3 (6 on new bat.), 1005 L2 (131on new bat.),

Going by AH, I'm down by 4.5% from new. GID's value didn't budge for the first 3 months and is now dropping. Annual loss is estimated at 11% at the current rate. I'm still expecting the loss to slow over the winter but time will tell. At the current rate, the battery will just miss the 100K warranty. So maybe 60k before the fourth bar drops on the new battery. If the detirioration slows in the winter, then maybe 70-75K before the fourth bar drops. I certainly wouldn't expect much better than that.


Is this rate of degradation an improvement as compared to the original battery?

Edit: asking to see if it indicates that the firmware update held and that a new firmware update isn't needed.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

johnlocke
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Oct update. I now have about 7000 mi on the new battery after 4 1/2 months. I'm showing the first signs of deterioration already. Stats as of Nov 1.

359 GID's, AH=78.47, SOH=98.73% Hx=90.30%. 51819 mi (6890 mi. on new bat.). 120 L3 (6 on new bat.), 1005 L2 (131 on new bat.),

Going by AH, I'm down by 4.5% from new. GID's value didn't budge for the first 3 months and is now dropping. Annual loss is estimated at 11% at the current rate. I'm still expecting the loss to slow over the winter but time will tell. At the current rate, the battery will just miss the 100K warranty. So maybe 60k before the fourth bar drops on the new battery. If the deterioration slows in the winter, then maybe 70-75K before the fourth bar drops. I certainly wouldn't expect much better than that.


Is this rate of degradation an improvement as compared to the original battery?

Edit: asking to see if it indicates that the firmware update held and that a new firmware update isn't needed.

It's hard to compare apples to apples here. Timewise the first battery was in better shape after 4 1/2 months but that was Dec-Apr time frame as opposed to Jun-Oct for the new battery. If I look at Jun-Oct for the old battery, it had a 9% loss compared to a 4.4% loss for the new one. That summer was brutal on the old battery and the second summer was just as bad although by that time I was QC'ing on a weekly basis which could have had some effect as well.

My guess is that the new battery is somewhat better but not as advertised. It will take another 3-4 months to get a better idea of cold weather performance and perhaps until June of next year to get a sense of what the real annual loss is like. If the deterioration slows significantly during the cool months, we might be looking at 6-8% annual losses. Still not the 2-3% annual loss Nissan suggested as "normal".
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

jubamad
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:18 am
Delivery Date: 25 Oct 2018

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:41 pm

I have recently bought a 2016 30kwh S model (12 bars / 91%SOH) with 25.600km on the clock. Software has been upgraded by Nissan when I bought from dealer. Got the documentation showing improvement after software update.

This is the 3rd week I'm using it and did an experiment.

I have charged the battery to 100% and drove in ECO mode all the time, A/C off all the time.

The range on the dash showed 191km at 100%.

Yesterday before charging it again I had drove 192km and still had 13% of battery remaining (~27km).

I could have driven a bit more before charging, and think the way I drive I could have easily passed the 200km mark.

I'm in New Zealand and driving mostly on flat. Around 80% flat surface and 20% small hills.

Hope it helps. Cheers

Image

cwerdna
Posts: 8282
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:07 am

jubamad wrote:I have recently bought a 2016 30kwh S model (12 bars / 91%SOH) with 25.600km on the clock. Software has been upgraded by Nissan when I bought from dealer. Got the documentation showing improvement after software update.

This is the 3rd week I'm using it and did an experiment.

I have charged the battery to 100% and drove in ECO mode all the time, A/C off all the time.

The range on the dash showed 191km at 100%.

Yesterday before charging it again I had drove 192km and still had 13% of battery remaining (~27km).

I could have driven a bit more before charging, and think the way I drive I could have easily passed the 200km mark.

I'm in New Zealand and driving mostly on flat. Around 80% flat surface and 20% small hills.

Hope it helps.

Honestly, it doesn't help at all unless you also noted your efficiency (e.g. miles/kWh or km/kWh). You would've needed to reset that meter at the beginning of the trip and noted the value at the end. If someone drives your car faster, there will be less charge remaining or might not make it 192 km. If someone drives it slower, it'll have a greater % remaining.

You can take a look at the range chart at viewtopic.php?t=4295. You'll want to d/l the metric ones. Also read https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range and https://web.archive.org/web/20110319233 ... -and-range for background info. Yes, it's written by Tesla but the principles are the same.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

webeleafowners
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:15 pm

jubamad wrote:I have recently bought a 2016 30kwh S model (12 bars / 91%SOH) with 25.600km on the clock. Software has been upgraded by Nissan when I bought from dealer. Got the documentation showing improvement after software update.

This is the 3rd week I'm using it and did an experiment.

I have charged the battery to 100% and drove in ECO mode all the time, A/C off all the time.

The range on the dash showed 191km at 100%.

Yesterday before charging it again I had drove 192km and still had 13% of battery remaining (~27km).

I could have driven a bit more before charging, and think the way I drive I could have easily passed the 200km mark.

I'm in New Zealand and driving mostly on flat. Around 80% flat surface and 20% small hills.

Hope it helps. Cheers

Image


We get similar results depending on driving conditions. We count on 180 km but could easily get in the low 200’s depending on where we are driving. We are in BC Canada where it is much more mountainous. We have about a third less kms on ours. Great car. We are planning on a model 3 Tesla in spring 2020 but will be interesting to see the long range Leaf when it comes out.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”