2011 Leaf Implied Warranty Documentation

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wwhitney

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
871
Location
Berkeley, CA
Hello,

My 2011 Nissan Leaf (Klee opt out, no P3227) finally dropped to 8 capacity bars, so now I'm motivated to pursue a battery replacement with Nissan. I understand that some people have had a positive result with BBB Auto Line (unless there's a different BBB arbitration system?), so I thought I'd start there.

Can anyone point me to resources for the 2010-2011 era statements Nissan made about battery longevity that I can argue constitute an implied warranty? I specifically remember some comments about how outside of extreme climates, the battery capacity should remain above 80% after 5 years and above 70% after 10 years. Obviously 64% (+/-) after 7 years doesn't match those statements.

Any other pointers for people who've gone through this process would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Wayne
 
I found one document, "An open letter to Nissan LEAF owners from Carla Bailo, senior vice president, Research and Development, Nissan Americas," a copy of which is hosted here at mynissanleaf.com:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/assets/An%20open%20letter%20to%20Nissan%20LEAF%20owners%20from%20Carla%20Bailo_FINAL.pdf

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
I found one document, "An open letter to Nissan LEAF owners from Carla Bailo, senior vice president, Research and Development, Nissan Americas," a copy of which is hosted here at mynissanleaf.com:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/assets/An%20open%20letter%20to%20Nissan%20LEAF%20owners%20from%20Carla%20Bailo_FINAL.pdf

Cheers, Wayne

so guessing you are going for... a prorated cost replacement?

TBH, since I wasn't involved, I don't know what the ruling did other than allow you to opt out to pursue a different settlement but now its several years beyond the 5 year parameter and claiming it under workmanship when its an obvious wear item?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Even a snowball in Hell has the right to try...
Well, my basic argument is that Nissan's statements in 2011 and 2012 constitute an implied warranty. While those statements implicitly refer to median or typical degradation, I'm confident that my vehicle has experienced conditions that are above median in terms of favorable longevity. I live in a mild climate (Berkeley, CA), I charged to 80% until capacity degradation made that difficult, the car has under 60K miles, and I haven't abused it.

So it's a pretty big miss when a vehicle like that doesn't even hit the median expectation on battery longevity, and Nissan should own up for it. I would imagine that today, 7 years later (not 10), nowhere close to half of 2011 Nissan Leafs have a capacity of 70% * 280 = 196 gids. Probably more like 0% to 5%.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Hello,

My 2011 Nissan Leaf (Klee opt out, no P3227) finally dropped to 8 capacity bars, so now I'm motivated to pursue a battery replacement with Nissan. I understand that some people have had a positive result with BBB Auto Line (unless there's a different BBB arbitration system?), so I thought I'd start there...
I just finished my BBB Auto Line hearing, will post here after I receive the decision:

Good Will Program over--Lost 4th bar 10 days after warranty expired, Nissan: 'too bad'
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24800
 
P.S. It was probably a tactical error not to purse replacement at the 5 year mark under the implied 5 year/80% warranty (a figure that was even mentioned in the paperwork that came with the car), but at that time the car was still meeting my needs adequately and I didn't want to deal with it. I think I may have lost the third bar shortly after the 5 year mark, perhaps I would have felt differently if it had disappeared prior to the 5 year mark.

Cheers, Wayne
 
edatoakrun said:
I just finished my BBB Auto Line hearing, will post here after I receive the decision:
Even prior to your getting a decision, I'd love to hear about the experience, the line of argument you pursued, and any supporting documentation you dug up.

Thanks, Wayne
 
A discovery process that required Nissan to expose their battery check records would be most informative.
 
wwhitney said:
Can anyone point me to resources for the 2010-2011 era statements Nissan made about battery longevity that I can argue constitute an implied warranty?
Hi Wayne,

I transcribed one such statement from Nissan in a YouTube video here for just such an occasion. The video is now gone, but my transcription lives on.

Edit: Here is another video with many statements from then-Nissan-VP Mark Perry with a partial transcription. In that case, the video lives on. Lots of nonsense in that one!
 
So is it worth going to a dealer to pay for a battery check and attempt a warranty claim, so that Nissan can turn me down, before I go to BBB Auto Line? Or should I just straight to BBB Auto Line?

I did open a case with 1-877-NO-GAS-EV, and the person helping me repeated the line that since I opted out of Klee, I never had the 5 year/60,000 miles/fake 70% capacity warranty. My position, of course, is that since they mailed me a document granting that warranty prior to Klee, and without any mention of Klee, I had such a warranty anyway.

That's not directly material, though, as I believe I'm going for the implied warranty angle. The 10 year powertrain warranty excludes "gradual" degradation, which is a rather vague term. My position is likely to be that Nissan's subsequent comments were elaborations of the meaning of the word "gradual" in that warranty, and that as my degradation exceeded the stated expectations, without any unusual deleterious factors, my degradation was not gradual.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
That's not directly material, though, as I believe I'm going for the implied warranty angle. The 10 year powertrain warranty excludes "gradual" degradation, which is a rather vague term. My position is likely to be that Nissan's subsequent comments were elaborations of the meaning of the word "gradual" in that warranty, and that as my degradation exceeded the stated expectations, without any unusual deleterious factors, my degradation was not gradual.

Cheers, Wayne
Isn't the Klee settlement a definition of more than gradual degradation ?
 
Good luck Wayne. I agree that your opt out of the stupid Klee class action should have no impact because Nissan provided the written capacity warranty (letter and insert for warranty booklet) long before the Klee case was published. I received a new battery in my 2011 in early October 2013 and opted out of the Klee case later in October. I asked the EV customer Service about the class action case while waiting for the new battery (they called periodically to update the delivery status) and they could not say what, if any, impact it would have on the capacity warranty already in effect. I clearly remember statements by Nissan officials claiming they expected 80% remaining capacity after 5 years and 70% remaining capacity after 10 years.

As an Electrical Engineer who considered the design parameters of the car before purchasing, I felt obligated to opt out of the Klee case because it was based upon the premise that Nissan improperly designed the cooling system of the battery. I disagreed with that premise so I felt obligated to distance myself from the case.
 
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